NPC Inspired Ships

[Desertfox]

Work has been a tad slow lately. so I've had some time to fiddle around with ships again. It's been years since I last used SS2 and first time I've used SS3. Also trying to figure out the N7 rules.

A semi-dreadnought for the Gulf of Mexico primarily designed to force a European powerhouse to commit their capital ships. 

Moctezuma II, Aztec Empire Pocket Dreadnought laid down 1907

Displacement:
   15,502 t light; 16,560 t standard; 17,704 t normal; 18,620 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (500.00 ft / 500.00 ft) x 90.00 ft x (25.50 / 26.53 ft)
   (152.40 m / 152.40 m) x 27.43 m  x (7.77 / 8.09 m)

Armament:
      6 - 13.00" / 330 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,107.87lbs / 502.52kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1907 Model
     2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 172.96lbs / 78.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1907 Model
     2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1907 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1907 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,451 lbs / 3,834 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 74 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.00" / 25 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 80.00 ft / 24.38 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.00" / 330 mm, Aft 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 21,874 shp / 16,318 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 3,100nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons

Complement:
   766 - 997

Cost:
   £1.471 million / $5.885 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,508 tons, 8.5 %
      - Guns: 1,508 tons, 8.5 %
   Armour: 5,763 tons, 32.6 %
      - Belts: 2,558 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 222 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armament: 1,402 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,289 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 293 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 1,243 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,588 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,203 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.3 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,669 lbs / 13,004 Kg = 26.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,112 Square feet or 2,890 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 837 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

Pretty nice I think.

Interesting putting the 7" supers over the 13".  I did that as well, but with twins.

Technically it's slightly early, triple tech in 1907, but only then can turrets be designed to that spec... darned sequence mucked up a couple of my and Jefgte's plans. Oil firing and 15 knots are interesting for 1907. Overall though, a fairly solid design and quite respectable.

For Parthia- who just claimed Kingston Harbor and Port of Spain, she'd be a concern. The Parthians probably wouldn't feel good about committing a 1900 War Chariot PD, but they'd send the 1904 Smurgh PD.  Very similar battery, only 4x mains, but 345mm, and more belt armor- and backed by a protective deck. However that class was meant to be a "tough" PD. While a Gilgamesh dreadnaught would be hard to "spare" for such a distant theater- at least until the Tiamat are built. Which means Parthia could not bully the Aztecs with impunity, as the Aztecs would have at least nominal parity- so your goal is effectively met.

I've been considering asking to start an NPC ship thread that would include first a range of the strategic needs of that nation and then the 'RFP' for vessels to meet those.  Might be a fun place for people to "play".

One of the questions would also be 'how developed' the NPCs are. I expect most are kinda where Japan or Spain was prior to WWI. Some domestic capacity, but some elements like large guns, from overseas. For the Aztecs, countries like Byzantium would make a logical source, or perhaps they are robust enough to do all aspects of manufacture. Robust NPCs are supposed to be part of the world history. 

Another question would be things like Oil and strategic reserves. We "Know" all the majors have at least "enough".

Overall, fleshing out the rest of the N7 world would be nice.

Welcome back Foxy !

[Desertfox]

I figured triples could be a natural evolution of the twins over twins designs. I had some Northern Kingdom (US) design influence with superfiring and cagemasts since they and Byzantium would make sense as countries the Aztecs could look to. As for oil firing they should have plenty of oil but limited coal sources. 


Another one, the Mayan counter:

Chichen Itza, Mayan People's Republic Dreadnought laid down 1907

Displacement:
   13,620 t light; 14,494 t standard; 15,498 t normal; 16,301 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (490.00 ft / 490.00 ft) x 82.00 ft x (25.00 / 26.01 ft)
   (149.35 m / 149.35 m) x 24.99 m  x (7.62 / 7.93 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 709.07lbs / 321.63kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1907 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 5.40" / 137 mm 45.0 cal guns - 79.40lbs / 36.02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1907 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      14 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 10.55lbs / 4.79kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1907 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      14 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,773 lbs / 3,072 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   5.40" / 137 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.40" / 137 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.00" / 25 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 70.00 ft / 21.34 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.40" / 137 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:   5.40" / 137 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 5.40" / 137 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24,226 shp / 18,073 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,807 tons

Complement:
   693 - 902

Cost:
   £1.311 million / $5.243 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,314 tons, 8.5 %
      - Guns: 1,314 tons, 8.5 %
   Armour: 5,493 tons, 35.4 %
      - Belts: 2,463 tons, 15.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 189 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armament: 1,351 tons, 8.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,260 tons, 8.1 %
      - Conning Towers: 230 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 1,376 tons, 8.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,045 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,878 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 390 tons, 2.5 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 140 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,343 lbs / 10,588 Kg = 34.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,780 Square feet or 2,581 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 704 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.76
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

Careful,  you'll get sucked in...

I'll leave off worrying about tech conformance dates - one can always just reset the engine year.
I'm not keen on the block coefficient, more of a cruiser hull.

I don't get why you trimmed the upper belt height to 2.13m ? Using 7ft as a nominal deck height?
5.18m freeboard -2.13 upper belt...  main belt at 3.05m?
Not likely as leaves main belt above WL.

So part of upperhull unprotected?  Say 1st deck
5.18 - 2.13 = 3.05m.  -2.13 upper = +0.92 to -2.08 main belt?  Not bad, but short decks and unprotected upper hull at 3.05m where you'd want those casements to be.  You don't want them at 0.92m.

It also looks like the TDS height is short for the hull depth, default is 6.95m. Did it start as a shallower draft ship?
Another factor...I'd have to hunt it down, perhaps you know the reference, but I could swear the USN liked shallower draft in part for working off the Mexican coast.

[Desertfox]

Is this a better armor layout? Most US battleships of the time period seem to have about a 25ft draft.


This would be the predecessor to the Montezuma II design.

Cuauthémoc, Aztec Empire Pre-dreadnought laid down 1904

Displacement:
   12,491 t light; 13,204 t standard; 13,923 t normal; 14,498 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (470.00 ft / 470.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (24.00 / 24.77 ft)
   (143.26 m / 143.26 m) x 24.38 m  x (7.32 / 7.55 m)

Armament:
      4 - 13.00" / 330 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1,052.81lbs / 477.55kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 172.96lbs / 78.45kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      14 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,477 lbs / 2,938 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 75 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.00" / 330 mm, Aft 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,403 ihp / 7,761 Kw = 17.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,294 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   640 - 833

Cost:
   £1.203 million / $4.813 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,151 tons, 8.3 %
      - Guns: 1,151 tons, 8.3 %
   Armour: 4,495 tons, 32.3 %
      - Belts: 2,409 tons, 17.3 %
      - Armament: 1,351 tons, 9.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 485 tons, 3.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 249 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 1,515 tons, 10.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,961 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,432 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 2.7 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,413 lbs / 8,352 Kg = 16.8 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.545
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.16 ft / 4.62 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,996 Square feet or 2,415 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 748 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

Yeah, that's a very nice rework.
Armor layout works well.

Still a formidable vessel at a very reasonable displacement.

You've still got the 4 mains set up as 2 triples. You'll save a little bit when you make them twins.

The weird thing is changing from triples to twins for main and secondary makes the design converge a lot with my Simurgh which is

That period armor layouts were very inconsistent. Take the Brits - most of their belt armors were really at maximum thickness for a fairly short height, then fell off. Often times that gets written up as the maximum thickness and total height, making for sim problems.  Then the depth below WL varied a lot. You're at 1.5m which was quite reasonable for then. I think I went 1.8m in that time frame.

[Desertfox]

Well the intent was to show a logical smooth progression without the quantum leap of Dreadnought


And just because, whats the point of SS3 if you can't have some ridiculous fun every once in a while...

Are you serious?, Aztec Empire White Elephant laid down 1888

Displacement:
   5,780 t light; 6,036 t standard; 6,144 t normal; 6,230 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (16.00 / 16.18 ft)
   (91.44 m / 91.44 m) x 24.38 m  x (4.88 / 4.93 m)

Armament:
      3 - 13.00" / 330 mm 30.0 cal guns - 997.21lbs / 452.33kg shells, 60 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mount, 1888 Model
     1 x 5-gun mount on centreline forward
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 170.35lbs / 77.27kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mount, 1888 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline forward
      1 raised mount
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.41lbs / 6.08kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1888 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,413 lbs / 1,548 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 2,816 ihp / 2,101 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 194 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   346 - 451

Cost:
   £0.501 million / $2.004 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 505 tons, 8.2 %
      - Guns: 505 tons, 8.2 %
   Armour: 1,833 tons, 29.8 %
      - Belts: 1,196 tons, 19.5 %
      - Armament: 308 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 257 tons, 4.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 72 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 547 tons, 8.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,896 tons, 47.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 364 tons, 5.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,349 lbs / 5,148 Kg = 10.7 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.75
   Metacentric height 9.0 ft / 2.7 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.562
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,907 Square feet or 1,571 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 771 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.29
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Walter]

Due to their size, I would expect the 3" and 70mm guns to be QF guns on the more modern ships. As they are quick firing a few more shells would be useful for those guns.

I had some Northern Kingdom (US) design influence with superfiring and cagemasts since they and Byzantium would make sense as countries the Aztecs could look to.

... so what do the Aztecs have to offer to the Northern Kingdom?

*checks CIA factbook*

Got useful stuff there but...

*checks babes*

Deal! ;D

Aztec Empire +1000 XP

[The Rock Doctor]

I like that it's fitted for three guns but can ship two more.

I also like seeing the Fox posting again.

[Desertfox]

Because it wouldn't be me without a plaid speed tincan. A "show the flag" flagship for the Pacific fleet. Couldn't decide which of the two looks looked better.

Quetzalcoatl, Aztec Empire Armored Cruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
   13,709 t light; 14,468 t standard; 16,595 t normal; 18,296 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (570.00 ft / 570.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (25.50 / 27.54 ft)
   (173.74 m / 173.74 m) x 22.56 m  x (7.77 / 8.39 m)

Armament:
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm 50.0 cal guns - 529.32lbs / 240.10kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
     12 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,127 lbs / 2,326 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      6 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 62,335 shp / 46,502 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,828 tons

Complement:
   730 - 950

Cost:
   £1.529 million / $6.117 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,167 tons, 7.0 %
      - Guns: 1,167 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 2,679 tons, 16.1 %
      - Belts: 1,064 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armament: 931 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 544 tons, 3.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 140 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,048 tons, 24.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,445 tons, 32.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,886 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 2.2 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,039 lbs / 6,822 Kg = 30.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:      20.08 ft / 6.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,163 Square feet or 2,709 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 663 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

Interesting.

I think the Byzantine AC3 Ceyhan is the only comparable vessel that early. Jefgte stole the march on me, as my AC of that time was still 4x10. My next one is 8x10....but his same period is slightly better. Now he's building a very very suspiciously large "Armored Cruiser" that I will reply to once it's reasonable for Parthia to know.

Speed is very good, but as a vessel with >8" guns it's a capital ship.
Per the ship design guidelines, in this tech period the minimum upper belt is 90mm, as that's the minimum face hardenable thickness.
25mm doesn't actually do much of anything. Won't even stop 6" Common.
Again, if the upper belt starts at the freeboard, the belts don't extend past the waterline - which wasn't unheard of, but means at speed you're exposing the hull below the belt.

Casements - breechloading 5"  triple mounts on centerline ends? Huh?

Torpedo Tubes - Triples are not available until 1910 (1908 destroyer tech), so doubles.
Plus Snip really has  pet peeve about us modeling them using SS3.  He just wants them as Misc weight and explained in notes. Max 18" at 2t Each - so allocated 8t and you're good.
Speaking of which, while you have 120tons above deck for the 10% Armament weight for Fire control, it's not called out.

Also, the Tech becomes available after the year. It takes 2 years to research oil fired boilers - 1906, 1907. Available 1908.
So oil-sprayed coal is needed.
While it's a choice- one I've made in cases-  the cruise speed is very high for that time frame. Faster speeds could be done, but they cost more fuel- which is why you're 17% fuel and stores.  Remember, no one else in the Pacific will have oil, so you can't refuel at trade posts.

Laid down in 1906 you're still researching the new turret gearing to allow continuous aim, to kick combat ranges to 6km.
I've read that supposedly ~240mm was about the max bulk that was practical for, but I suspect 255mm is more likely as a whole bunch of ships in many navies started coming out with that size and it was considered for Dreadnaught.

Armor vs Speed - that's really a design choice.   
So yes, for a range of 6k, Armor's is indeed a bit light for the main guns.  I used Logi's tool to estimate for my navy...and at 6km a nice clean broadside hit from my 180mm guns would penetrate - and I can fire a bunch more of them. Which means my Rustam ACs would be reasonable against them.   10" Penetration should be ~180mm+ at 10,000m ...so you can be holed from all angles and beyond battle ranges at time of construction.

Worse, the 25mm decks aren't going to stop large shell splinters.

[Desertfox]

Yeah its hard to push speed with coal fired boilers. Dropping a couple knots fixes most of the issues:

Quetzalcoatl, Aztec Empire Armored Cruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
   13,473 t light; 14,187 t standard; 16,595 t normal; 18,521 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (570.00 ft / 570.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (25.50 / 27.81 ft)
   (173.74 m / 173.74 m) x 22.56 m  x (7.77 / 8.48 m)

Armament:
      8 - 10.00" / 254 mm 50.0 cal guns - 529.33lbs / 240.10kg shells, 130 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,154 lbs / 2,338 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      8 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   220.00 ft / 67.06 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.00" / 178 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46,009 shp / 34,323 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 13.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,334 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   730 - 950

Cost:
   £1.411 million / $5.645 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,191 tons, 7.2 %
      - Guns: 1,191 tons, 7.2 %
   Armour: 3,371 tons, 20.3 %
      - Belts: 1,578 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armament: 888 tons, 5.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 765 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 140 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,254 tons, 19.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,287 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,122 tons, 18.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 2.2 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,871 lbs / 8,560 Kg = 37.7 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.08 ft / 5.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,163 Square feet or 2,709 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 656 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

Nice work Foxy.

Upperbelt needs to be +15mm at least, but otherwise quite redoubtable, still blazingly fast for the era and should be among the best in the world at launch.



Sidebar : on deck thickness and splinters.... over the years I've seen different sources mention  that ....say  thickness X should stop light splinters and spalling, but not medium, or thickness Y will stop medium... but no one specifies what a "medium" shell IS. Or what the ranges are.  I'm left to guess the conventional QF guns 155mm and less  are "light", and that the heavy cruiser/armored cruiser main guns 'medium', while 280mm+ is heavy...

I remember my college library had a national archive section, with some battleship related papers, and stumbling across the information that the 2.5" faceplates on the twin 5" mounts of the Iowa class were expected to be proof against all capital ship shell splinters. So... ~65mm proof vs 410mm splinters.  It also gave the side/roof thicknesses and pronounced them proof against "light" (I think).  Buried in Okun's discussions of shooting various WWII armor belts with Bismarck's guns you find comments on Vittorio's splinter screens...etc. These little slivers of comments are all the discussion you tend to find.

So when I ramble on about some thickness being 'enough vs. light splinters' .... I'm not citing some hard and fast rule, I'm summarizing slivers I've read across the years.
It's meant to be useful in producing a more accurate SIM.

[Desertfox]

The Mayan "Blucher", counter to Quetzalcoat (believed to have superfiring 7" and VTE).

Cozumel, Mayan People's Republic Armored Cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   11,989 t light; 12,527 t standard; 14,132 t normal; 15,415 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (530.00 ft / 530.00 ft) x 71.50 ft x (25.10 / 26.85 ft)
   (161.54 m / 161.54 m) x 21.79 m  x (7.65 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 284.97lbs / 129.26kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 5.40" / 137 mm 45.0 cal guns - 79.41lbs / 36.02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      14 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 10.56lbs / 4.79kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,063 lbs / 1,389 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.54" / 90 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.10" / 180 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      7.10" / 180 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm  Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.09" / 180 mm, Aft 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30,775 ihp / 22,958 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,889 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   647 - 842

Cost:
   £1.289 million / $5.157 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 631 tons, 4.5 %
      - Guns: 631 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 2,843 tons, 20.1 %
      - Belts: 1,720 tons, 12.2 %
      - Armament: 495 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 514 tons, 3.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 114 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,416 tons, 31.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,878 tons, 27.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,143 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 50 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 70 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,754 lbs / 4,878 Kg = 38.1 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.520 / 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m,  15.40 ft / 4.69 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.53 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,717 Square feet or 2,389 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 545 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships

Blucher or VdT disposition?

2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships alterned