Vilnius Union Ships, 1911 - 1919

[The Rock Doctor]

The wee royal yacht, Cztery Korony ("Four Crowns")...

[TacCovert4]

You're welcome for me starting that.  Ironically the royal yacht money I had is going into building an icebreaking cruiser for the Cape Colony.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Union had intended to order five Magdala-class cruisers in 1916-7:  Four to screen new capital ships and a fifth to replace the lost Bug.  However, funding got a bit tight in 1917 and the fifth unit was canceled.

Come 1918, the Union got pulled into the discussion about royal yachts and time-sensitive VIP transport.  The idea under discussion at the time was to find a couple hundred tonnes of space in the new capital ship design and set it aside for a spanky VIP suite that the king and a relatively small retinue could use for overseas journeys - say, a funeral.  Alternately, a minister and delegation might find it useful for emergency conferences. 

The Navy politely agreed that this was theoretically possible, but got a bit wiggy at the notion of losing a brand-new capital ship for weeks or months at a time if the king or somebody decided they wanted to wander off to the Ericas for a while.  As the funding situation for 1918 became a little clearer, an alternative was put forward:  Take the basic Magdala design, put in newer engines, and use the weight savings to build up the aft superstructure to include said VIP suite.  The capability is created, it costs less than it would to build into a capital ship, it'll be available years sooner than with a capital ship, and oh, by the way, it doesn't impact overall operational readiness quite as drastically.

So we have Bug II being laid down in 2/18:

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1918

Displacement:
   5,244 t light; 5,458 t standard; 5,929 t normal; 6,305 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (470.22 ft / 465.88 ft) x 46.59 ft x (20.34 / 21.28 ft)
   (143.32 m / 142.00 m) x 14.20 m  x (6.20 / 6.49 m)

Armament:
      10 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 684 lbs / 310 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ends:   0.98" / 25 mm   104.95 ft / 31.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.15" / 80 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 50,938 shp / 38,000 Kw = 29.93 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 847 tons

Complement:
   337 - 439

Cost:
   £1.011 million / $4.045 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 160 tons, 2.7 %
      - Guns: 160 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 1,091 tons, 18.4 %
      - Belts: 756 tons, 12.8 %
      - Armament: 54 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 258 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,838 tons, 31.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,793 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 684 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 363 tons, 6.1 %
      - Hull below water: 25 tons
      - Hull above water: 25 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 206 tons
      - Above deck: 107 tons

Fittings: 
-32 t:  Redundant 1912 fire control (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-50 t:  Flag facilities (AD)
-40 t:  VIP accommodation (FD)
-16 t:  Accommodation for four senior VIP aides (FD)
-30 t:  Accommodation for fifteen junior VIP aides (FD)
-12 t:  Office space for CIP aides
-2 t:   VIP cargo/luggage
-25 t:  Night-fighting doodads (FD)
-25 t:  Additional climate-control systems (FD)
-18 t:  2x3 530mm torpedoes, no reloads (FD)
-38 t:  Weight reserve (FD)
-25 t:  Additional fire-fighting mains (AW)
-25 t:  Additional pumps (BW)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,706 lbs / 2,135 Kg = 70.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.478
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.61 ft / 7.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.32 ft / 5.28 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,080 Square feet or 1,308 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 351 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[The Rock Doctor]

What might a canal-max battleship look like?  I'm glad you asked.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   49,667 t light; 52,298 t standard; 54,953 t normal; 57,077 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (818.55 ft / 800.52 ft) x 111.55 ft x (33.14 / 34.22 ft)
   (249.49 m / 244.00 m) x 34.00 m  x (10.10 / 10.43 m)

Armament:
      12 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
     10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 25,409 lbs / 11,525 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   520.34 ft / 158.60 m   16.11 ft / 4.91 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      3.94" / 100 mm   520.34 ft / 158.60 m   31.50 ft / 9.60 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.7" / 450 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 5.51" / 140 mm
   Forecastle: 3.94" / 100 mm  Quarter deck: 5.51" / 140 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 15.75" / 400 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 123,324 shp / 92,000 Kw = 27.06 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,780 tons

Complement:
   1,793 - 2,332

Cost:
   £11.075 million / $44.299 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,192 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 4,192 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 20,190 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 5,703 tons, 10.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 2,387 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 4,755 tons, 8.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 6,854 tons, 12.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 490 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,312 tons, 7.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,552 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,286 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,420 tons, 2.6 %
      - On freeboard deck: 1,000 tons
      - Above deck: 420 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     80,254 lbs / 36,403 Kg = 41.1 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 14.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.18 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.50 ft / 9.60 m,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m,  25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.91 ft / 6.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 68,407 Square feet or 6,355 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 225 lbs/sq ft or 1,101 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I was greatly amused to realize, after the fact, that in fact I HAD build five Magdala class cruisers, so my background on Bug II was wrong.

Nonetheless, I'm still building her.  She just doesn't slot into the existing force structure quite as easily.  Maybe I'll attach her to the Swarm.

[The Rock Doctor]

A couple of options have been identified for the next class of torpedo-boats.  As usual, they're intended to be well-rounded vessels capable of screening capital ships, torpedoing capital ships, or ASW as circumstances require.

One option, of course, is to just build more 1,000 t boats.  With newer engine techs, this would likely be an M-class with about 31.0 knots.  I haven't bothered to sim this out just yet.

A second option is to build to the maximum and upscale to 4 x 130mm guns.  Fitting those, 50% machinery, and a useful amount of miscellaneous weight into the hull was challenging for me.  There isn't a lot of room for "extras".

A third option is to split the difference with an intermediate-sized ship.  Stick with 100mm guns, but there's more speed and more room for bells and whistles. 

Whatcha think?  The large and intermediate designs follow...

[The Rock Doctor]

The intermediate design...

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1919

Displacement:
   1,254 t light; 1,304 t standard; 1,461 t normal; 1,586 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (369.89 ft / 360.89 ft) x 30.84 ft x (11.48 / 12.12 ft)
   (112.74 m / 110.00 m) x 9.40 m  x (3.50 / 3.69 m)

Armament:
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1919 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 127 lbs / 58 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,491 shp / 22,000 Kw = 31.97 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 281 tons

Complement:
   117 - 153

Cost:
   £0.342 million / $1.369 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 23 tons, 1.6 %
      - Guns: 23 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 13 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 762 tons, 52.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 334 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 207 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 122 tons, 8.4 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - Hull above water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 61 tons
      - Above deck: 31 tons

Fittings:
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-6 t:  Redundant 1912 fire control (AD)
-24 t:  2x3 Model 1913 530mm torpedoes (no reloads) (FD)
-15 t:  ASW munitions (FD)
-22 t:  Weight reserve (FD)
-15 t:  Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     335 lbs / 152 Kg = 11.0 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.07 ft / 3.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,851 Square feet or 636 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 134 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

The full-sized design

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1919

Displacement:
   1,498 t light; 1,572 t standard; 1,767 t normal; 1,922 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (368.16 ft / 359.25 ft) x 32.81 ft x (12.80 / 13.54 ft)
   (112.21 m / 109.50 m) x 10.00 m  x (3.90 / 4.13 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1919 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 274 lbs / 124 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,172 shp / 24,000 Kw = 31.58 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 351 tons

Complement:
   136 - 177

Cost:
   £0.441 million / $1.764 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 74 tons, 4.2 %
      - Guns: 74 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 28 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 28 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 883 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 445 tons, 25.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 268 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 69 tons, 3.9 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 38 tons
      - Above deck: 16 tons

Fittings:
-16 t:  Redundant 1912 fire control (AD)
-16 t:  1x4 or 2x2 Model 1913 530mm torpedoes (no reloads) (FD)
-15 t:  ASW munitions (FD)
- 7 t:  Weight reserve (FD)
-15 t:  Enhanced hydrophone package (BW)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     419 lbs / 190 Kg = 6.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.410 / 0.422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.95 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Forward deck:   41.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Aft deck:   24.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.40 ft / 4.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,299 Square feet or 678 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 168 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[The Rock Doctor]

Decided I'll do a run of the 1,254 t class for deployment to the more distal Atlantic stations.  They'll be reasonably well-suited to the semi-independent work they'd be there. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

Whatcha think?  The large and intermediate designs follow...

I meant to comment, ran out of time :)

[The Rock Doctor]

Whatcha think?  The large and intermediate designs follow...

I meant to comment, ran out of time :)

There's still time.  I haven't posted the 1/19 report yet so everything is subject to change.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Nothing fancy.

A) you continue to be better at destroyer design than I.

B) it may just be a way to allocate misc weight, but redundant fire control is not needed. Destroyers are so perishable that by time they loose the first set, the second would not help allot.

C) At a survivability of 419lbs for the large one, 335 for the mid, there's not a great deal of difference.

D) Neat feat fitting 130m&h. That deletes a critique that they probably should have them...you do.
I'm sticking to 120mm for DDs for a 'storyline' handling perspective. The Destroyer command having upgunned from 90 to 120 for some ships, while the Fleet units introduced a faster/lighter 130mm...leave me with 2 guns 10mm apart.

E) On the broader 130mm vs. 100mm question - My 'feel' is I think the 100mm will work well. Once DDs get up in the 2000 ton range, they will lack punch. But neither is a 'one shot kill' even now, so the somewhat higher ROF of the 100mm means you are more likely to hit and bust stuff up.

F) One thing that's come up in wars is range. You have what seems to be a generous range of 8000-9000nm.  Tremendous ...except it's at 10 knots. 
Destroyers will presumably be maneuvering around the fleet, so 12 might be better.

But the real question is - your expectations for use - how far and long you expect them to operate at top speed. I'm only starting to ask that question with my units. The answer of 3 hours wasn't what I liked. So my DDs are getting longer legs - but I have different operating needs I expect. You may take a look and say 9000@10 is fine and dandy.

G) this is more trivia, but reading about early ASW, they tended to only have a small number of DCs on board. I expect we're all going to be using hindsight on that one.

H) That is a heavy investment in gun armor for a ship otherwise completely lacking in it.

I) overall an impressive amount of Misc weight on these.

[The Rock Doctor]

B)  That's cool, frees up some weight.

D)  Parthian logistics people must be thrilled with this decision.  I'm keeping to as few guns as possible, which simplifies logistics but limits options for armaments.

F)  Certainly a higher cruise speed makes sense but I don't think it makes any actual difference to the overall sim.  Everything weighs that same, you just burn oil faster.  Or am I wrong on that?

G)  I recall that and just don't see that the historical assumptions make sense.  You carry hundreds of rounds to shoot at stuff but only a half dozen depth charges to slowly dump over a submarine you can't even see?  Nah.

H)  Turns out most of that was top/side armor and not the hoist or shield, so I gave that a big trim.

[The Rock Doctor]

That being the case, I fiddled with the big boy some more.  Tweaked the hull form a bit, reduced the gun armor.

I could, theoretically, add a few more tonnes of miscellaneous weight before the hull strength bottomed out - but this is the most I can add without the machinery weight slipping below 50.0% as a result.  I'd be happy with this, so now I have to rethink my earlier decision to build the 1,250 t ship.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1919

Displacement:
   1,499 t light; 1,572 t standard; 1,768 t normal; 1,924 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (368.07 ft / 359.25 ft) x 32.81 ft x (13.12 / 13.88 ft)
   (112.19 m / 109.50 m) x 10.00 m  x (4.00 / 4.23 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1919 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1919 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 274 lbs / 124 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.20" / 5 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,171 shp / 24,000 Kw = 31.61 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts (6,300 @ 12; 1,800 @ 20, 480 @ flank)
   Bunker at max displacement = 352 tons

Complement:
   136 - 177

Cost:
   £0.441 million / $1.764 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 74 tons, 4.2 %
      - Guns: 74 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 883 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 442 tons, 25.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 269 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 5.1 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 42 tons
      - Above deck: 33 tons

Fittings:
-8 t:  1912 fire control (I round up, not down) (AD)
-25 t:  L/R wireless (AD)
-10 t:  ASW munitions
-24 t:  2x3 530mm torpedoes, no reloads
-8 t:  Weight reserve
-15 t:  Enhanced hydrophone package

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     423 lbs / 192 Kg = 6.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.412
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.95 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.67 ft / 6.30 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Forward deck:   42.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Aft deck:   23.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.15 ft / 4.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,255 Square feet or 674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 169 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[Kaiser Kirk]

D)  Parthian logistics people must be thrilled with this decision.  I'm keeping to as few guns as possible, which simplifies logistics but limits options for armaments.

F)  Certainly a higher cruise speed makes sense but I don't think it makes any actual difference to the overall sim.  Everything weighs that same, you just burn oil faster.  Or am I wrong on that?

D) I've utterly failed at some pregame intentions.  An even flow of ship types, with the best available was one goal. Failed.  Keeping my guns simple. Failed. Sticking to multiples of 15...actually I think I...nope failed that too. 130 not 135, argh.

F) You are correct the model does not seem to account for it. It did in 'real life' as ships had optimal cruising speeds and the hull form/gearing reinforced that, but that doesn't happen in SS3b.
My point is dull...errr two fold - that you're giving yourself a slightly off idea of what your ships can do operationally - not a big deal.
More important - you should look at the range at high speed and see if that works for your intended operations. If you envision DD squadrons going on high speed sweeps, have an idea of how far at what speed.     With the Baltic/North Sea/Carrib, You have fairly short range theaters, so it very well may, but one of the things I'm noticing is we're building these high speed vessels, but they can't sustain that sprint for very long at all. So it's something to consider for all of us.