Vilnius Union Ships, 1911 - 1919

[The Rock Doctor]

No real need for a still if one just embarks a whole bunch of booze in the first place.

[Desertfox]

An unintentional side effect is that Vilnius destroyers are going to be harder to hit since they will be swerving all over the place.

[The Rock Doctor]

An unintentional side effect is that Vilnius destroyers are going to be harder to hit since they will be swerving all over the place.

Their fire control might not be so hot, though.

[maddox]

Destroyerbattle "drunken monkey style".

[The Rock Doctor]

New light cruiser for 1913.  Bigger guns, more speed and greater range mean a larger hull than the preceding classes.

Consideration was given to an A/Bs layout forward, but the side-by-side disposition was retained after some debate.  Aft, however, it is Xs/Y.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913

Displacement:
   4,655 t light; 4,858 t standard; 5,391 t normal; 5,817 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (463.25 ft / 459.32 ft) x 45.93 ft x (19.03 / 20.12 ft)
   (141.20 m / 140.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (5.80 / 6.13 m)

Armament:
      10 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount aft
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 684 lbs / 310 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.54" / 90 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
   Ends:   0.98" / 25 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.14 ft / 2.48 m
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37,533 shp / 28,000 Kw = 28.13 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 959 tons

Complement:
   313 - 408

Cost:
   £0.473 million / $1.892 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 184 tons, 3.4 %
      - Guns: 184 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 1,058 tons, 19.6 %
      - Belts: 714 tons, 13.2 %
      - Armament: 43 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 301 tons, 5.6 %
   Machinery: 1,471 tons, 27.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,696 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 736 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 247 tons, 4.6 %
      - Hull above water: 207 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons
Fittings:
-38 t:  1905 FC (Redundant)
-25 t:  LR Wireless
-25 t:  Night Fighting doodads
-50 t:  Command Facilities (Leader function)
-16 t:  2x2 18" torpedoes, one set of reloads
-40 t:  Fitted for but not necessarily with 40 mines
-53 t:  Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,518 lbs / 2,503 Kg = 82.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.93 ft / 4.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,686 Square feet or 1,271 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

A key takeaway from the last two years of ferocious colonization is the need for basic escorts with decent endurance to accompany auxiliaries and troop transports travelling in the Atlantic.  These guys should fit the bill.  The mixed bunkerage is intended to provided for some flexibility in fuel supply.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913

Displacement:
   1,246 t light; 1,305 t standard; 1,465 t normal; 1,593 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (266.05 ft / 262.47 ft) x 36.09 ft x (10.83 / 11.54 ft)
   (81.09 m / 80.00 m) x 11.00 m  x (3.30 / 3.52 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1913 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      1 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1913 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 207 lbs / 94 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   12.47 ft / 3.80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,753 shp / 2,800 Kw = 18.06 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 288 tons (45% coal)

Complement:
   117 - 153

Cost:
   £0.092 million / $0.369 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 56 tons, 3.8 %
      - Guns: 56 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 312 tons, 21.3 %
      - Belts: 178 tons, 12.1 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 116 tons, 7.9 %
   Machinery: 153 tons, 10.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 541 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 219 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 185 tons, 12.6 %
      - Hull above water: 60 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Fittings:
-12 t:  Redundant 1908 FC
-25 t:  LR Wireless
-25 t:  Night Fighting doodads
-4 t:  2x1 18" Torpedoes
-40 t:  Accommodation for 20 marines
-106 t:  Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,116 lbs / 1,867 Kg = 61.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.34 ft / 6.20 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.57 ft / 4.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,311 Square feet or 586 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 262 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Kaiser Kirk]

A key takeaway from the last two years of ferocious colonization is the need for basic escorts with decent endurance to accompany auxiliaries and troop transports travelling in the Atlantic.  These guys should fit the bill.  The mixed bunkerage is intended to provided for some flexibility in fuel supply.

I can't say I have the same vision.

She would be a handful for a destroyer or torpedo boat...if they wandered within optical fire control range.
In the mid Atlantic, far from shore, thats not a great risk.
Subs are not yet a factor, and there's no ASW yet.

Coastal gunboat...sure.

So..if needed... what are these expected to fight?
Take the issues now resolved by the Treaty of Montevideo. If they had gone sour, what would be the role?
What if it was Rome or the Norse?
Could this defend a transport from any likely raider?

[Desertfox]

I think you are going to need a bigger boat...

[The Rock Doctor]

And the crowd goes mild for the sloop.  I'll give that some further thought, then.

[Jefgte]

...Could this defend a transport from any likely raider?

3x130 are short...

I think you are going to need a bigger boat...

...& bigger guns

[Desertfox]

Don't get me wrong, its a nice colonial gunboat, a lot like a bigger version of my Uji class. But the biggest risk to transport ships are protected cruisers and AMCs, so as an escort she is definitely outclassed.

[Kaiser Kirk]

And the crowd goes mild for the sloop.  I'll give that some further thought, then.

Well put it this way.
The oldest Parthian vessels meant for commerce warfare are the 3000 ton sailing frigates.  They are steel hulled brigs.
Their engines mean they are almost as fast as your escort, and definitely faster than any merchant...but basically can linger out there for months.
They have a 30mm protective deck that is 65mm on the slopes. The 130mm will be challenged by that at any decent range.
They have 1905 fire control (currently) and they have broadsides of 2x 180mm, 4x 90mm.  The big ones can punch holes in those sloops at 6000m without problems.

[snip]

Rome is looking the other direction. Larger, more durable cruisers that are capable of sending anything but large raiders packing. With the threat being surface ships at this time, the big cruisers are seen as more valuable then smaller sloops and such outside of coastal work. I'm sure that thinking will change as submarines grow longer ranged and more threatening to merchants.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm sure that thinking will change as submarines grow longer ranged and more threatening to merchants.

And that's one reason I had Parthia make clear her stance on the Cruiser rules.

[maddox]

Proof of the pudding is in eating it.

Somebody should sim out the fight between one of the sailing frigates and an escort of these sloops (same size the A class destroyers) protecting the convoy.