Vilnius Union Ships, 1911 - 1919

[TacCovert4]

That's good to know.  I was thinking of that more as weather and splinter protection, but it's easy enough to notch it up to 10 or 15mm.  The weight reserve is there.

I'd call 10mm as the minimum for reliable protection from rifle caliber MG fire.  Once things escalate to heavy MGs, figure 20-25mm as the minimum, 30-35mm as the reliable protection limit.....

Also, per the rules, splinters pierce 1/6 caliber, so 10mm would be able to take 60mm shell splinters tops.

[The Rock Doctor]

Fear it.

Run from it.

The Death Disk arrives all the same.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914

Displacement:
   2,391 t light; 2,573 t standard; 2,693 t normal; 2,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (127.95 ft / 127.95 ft) x 127.95 ft x (8.86 / 9.13 ft)
   (39.00 m / 39.00 m) x 39.00 m  x (2.70 / 2.78 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.18lbs / 111.66kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1914 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      6 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 913 lbs / 414 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm     76.77 ft / 23.40 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   0.98" / 25 mm     51.15 ft / 15.59 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -         3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.20" / 5 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0.59" / 15 mm  Quarter deck: 0.59" / 15 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,681 shp / 2,000 Kw = 12.27 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 216 tons

Complement:
   186 - 243

Cost:
   £0.209 million / $0.838 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 176 tons, 6.5 %
      - Guns: 176 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 718 tons, 26.7 %
      - Belts: 332 tons, 12.3 %
      - Armament: 125 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 244 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 103 tons, 3.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,265 tons, 47.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 302 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 4.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 105 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Fittings:
-25 t:  L/R Wireless
-18 t:  1908 Fire Control
-8 t:  4x18" torpedoes, two sets of two hull-mounted forward-firing tubes.
-20 t:  Rudder/steering enhancements
-59 t:  Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,667 lbs / 8,014 Kg = 72.4 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 2.06
   Metacentric height 22.5 ft / 6.9 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 1.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.31 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 100
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m,  11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.11 ft / 5.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 39.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 252.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,542 Square feet or 1,165 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 160 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.72
      - Longitudinal: 17.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TacCovert4]

Somebody watches Drachinifel.....

[The Rock Doctor]

The Union, like everybody else, is hopping aboard the torpedo-boat carrier bandwagon - at least for the purposes of building a prototype for trials and testing.

The Union considered what was known about various existing models worldwide, which wasn't a great deal, and concluded that there were (potentially) tactical and strategic functions for such a ship. 

The strategic role was about long-term basing, which involved ample and comfortable MTB crew accommodation, supplies of expendables, workshops and spare parts - a depot ship.  Such a ship was notionally on the slow side, since it spent most of its life anchored as a floating base, and probably wouldn't be heavily armed or armored.

The tactical role was about short-term transport in and out of a combat zone, with a limited number of actual missions corresponding to the duration of a naval battle or until the loss of tactical surprise.  This was generally in line with what was known about Parthian torpedo-boat carriers.  The Union went a step further, though, and ruled out a back-up role as a protected cruiser.  The amount of space and weight dedicated to the MTBs would mean the ship would be under-armed, armored, or propelled compared to actual protected cruisers of the same size.

So the ship is designed around these principles:

-The ship and its cargo are a scalpel, to be used for surprise raids rather than fleet actions.  Their value rapidly decreases once the enemy is aware of their presence.  Hence, only a limited amount of expendables are embarked and depot ship functions are not built in, because the ship will conduct its mission and then return to base.

-Large powerplant and good seakeeping allowing fast transit into and out of the combat zone, ideally at night.

-Long hull with a crane and cradle on the beam for each MTB, theoretically allowing for simultaneous unloading and loading of all six MTB in the shortest possible time period.

-No armor and limited armament - though theoretically sufficient to deal with a patrol craft, sacrifices must be made.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914

Displacement:
   3,543 t light; 3,654 t standard; 3,994 t normal; 4,266 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (436.95 ft / 426.51 ft) x 45.93 ft x (14.27 / 15.00 ft)
   (133.18 m / 130.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (4.35 / 4.57 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1914 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1914 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      1 raised mount
      Weight of broadside 216 lbs / 98 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 37,533 shp / 28,000 Kw = 29.04 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 613 tons

Complement:
   250 - 326

Cost:
   £0.441 million / $1.764 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 57 tons, 1.4 %
      - Guns: 57 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 37 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,446 tons, 36.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,360 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 451 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 643 tons, 16.1 %
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 293 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Fittings:
360 t: 6 x 20 t MTB, cradle, and cranes
100 t:  MTB crew accommodation
96 t:  12 missions worth of MTB ammo/fuel (2 x18" torpedo & 4 t fuel per boat-mission)
31 t:  Weight reserve25 t:  Night-fighting doodads
25 t:  L/R wireless
6 t:  1908 Fire Control

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,957 lbs / 1,341 Kg = 44.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.45 ft / 5.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,053 Square feet or 1,213 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 304 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 1.85
      - Overall: 0.91
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Notional sketch:

[Desertfox]

Is that a Rocky drawing...!?!? Are we going to see more?

Japan definitely went the strategic role with theirs. They are long-range transporters first, depot second.

[The Rock Doctor]

The sketch was mainly to see how the deck space looked.  I reckon it's adequate, but only barely.  If I had functional twin mounts, I'd stick the main battery into two rather than have singles, just to save up a bit of space.

I suppose I should try to draw a couple of the interesting ships, anyway.

[The Rock Doctor]

I don't think I have any new classes being laid down in 1914, so I'm just going to randomly post a few things I simmed for the sake of it. 

This is a scout cruiser of sorts - fast enough to maybe avoid most battlecruisers, but sufficiently armed and armored to lay a beating on light cruisers.  It's also expendable enough to risk losing in a serious scouting role, which might not be true of a full-sized battlecruiser.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914

Displacement:
   13,289 t light; 13,864 t standard; 14,992 t normal; 15,894 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (562.78 ft / 557.74 ft) x 75.46 ft x (24.93 / 26.06 ft)
   (171.53 m / 170.00 m) x 23.00 m  x (7.60 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1914 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1914 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 3,704 lbs / 1,680 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm         -         3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 91,152 shp / 68,000 Kw = 30.14 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,030 tons

Complement:
   676 - 880

Cost:
   £1.611 million / $6.443 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 766 tons, 5.1 %
      - Guns: 766 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 3,258 tons, 21.7 %
      - Belts: 1,188 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armament: 622 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,345 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 103 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,511 tons, 23.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,278 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,702 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 476 tons, 3.2 %
      - Hull above water: 226 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Fittings:
-77 t:  Fire control
-50 t:  Flag facilities
-25 t:  L/R wireless
-25 t:  Night-fighting doodads
-299 t:  Weight reserve/unspecified

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,373 lbs / 8,334 Kg = 38.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.54 ft / 8.70 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m,  23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.44 ft / 6.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,041 Square feet or 2,605 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

Just playing around with a mini-Renown.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   26,824 t light; 28,004 t standard; 29,385 t normal; 30,490 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (684.75 ft / 672.57 ft) x 90.22 ft x (28.25 / 29.12 ft)
   (208.71 m / 205.00 m) x 27.50 m  x (8.61 / 8.88 m)

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1916 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,014 lbs / 4,089 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.95" / 75 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   26.64 ft / 8.12 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 131,367 shp / 98,000 Kw = 30.01 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,485 tons

Complement:
   1,121 - 1,458

Cost:
   £3.951 million / $15.806 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,519 tons, 5.2 %
      - Guns: 1,519 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 9,700 tons, 33.0 %
      - Belts: 2,868 tons, 9.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,272 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armament: 2,106 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,187 tons, 10.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 267 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,894 tons, 16.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,106 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,561 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 604 tons, 2.1 %
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 304 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,531 lbs / 17,931 Kg = 30.2 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  31.82 ft / 9.70 m,  26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m,  26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.07 ft / 7.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,381 Square feet or 4,123 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 803 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[The Rock Doctor]

Alternately, I could do a pair of triples, which would require a wider hull but offers some other benefits if one accepts the risk of a concentrated armament.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   25,862 t light; 27,022 t standard; 28,354 t normal; 29,419 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (635.65 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (27.89 / 28.75 ft)
   (193.75 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.50 / 8.76 m)

Armament:
      6 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
     2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1916 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,014 lbs / 4,089 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.95" / 75 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.31 ft / 8.02 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 136,729 shp / 102,000 Kw = 30.06 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,397 tons

Complement:
   1,092 - 1,420

Cost:
   £3.942 million / $15.769 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,519 tons, 5.4 %
      - Guns: 1,519 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 8,860 tons, 31.2 %
      - Belts: 2,708 tons, 9.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,165 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 1,612 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,115 tons, 11.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 260 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5,094 tons, 18.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,677 tons, 34.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,492 tons, 8.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 712 tons, 2.5 %
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 412 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,914 lbs / 16,744 Kg = 28.2 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  32.48 ft / 9.90 m,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.80 ft / 7.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,378 Square feet or 4,030 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 804 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

"Why not both?" asks the cute memetic girl, so I sim a Tre Kronor layout to humor her.  Obviously requires a heavier hull than the others on account of that extra barrel.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   28,200 t light; 29,484 t standard; 30,899 t normal; 32,032 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (668.46 ft / 656.17 ft) x 95.14 ft x (28.87 / 29.74 ft)
   (203.75 m / 200.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.80 / 9.06 m)

Armament:
      7 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,319.36lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
     1 x Triple mount on centreline forward
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount aft
      16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1916 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 10,333 lbs / 4,687 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   426.51 ft / 130.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.95" / 75 mm   426.51 ft / 130.00 m   27.23 ft / 8.30 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 139,410 shp / 104,000 Kw = 30.05 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,548 tons

Complement:
   1,164 - 1,514

Cost:
   £4.300 million / $17.201 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,744 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 1,744 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 9,901 tons, 32.0 %
      - Belts: 2,829 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,269 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 2,249 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,278 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 276 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5,194 tons, 16.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,761 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,700 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.9 %
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 300 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,578 lbs / 18,406 Kg = 31.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  32.48 ft / 9.90 m,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m,  27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.80 ft / 7.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,661 Square feet or 4,242 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 844 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[snip]

I think the belt height is to short. Only 3m leaves a lot of unarmored volume. I think all the designs have enough protected buoyancy to not be pounded to death with anything short of capital firepower, but soft-kills of things outside of the armored raft will be a major problem. Are they strong enough to win a two-ships-enter-one-ship-leaves fight, probly; can they do it again without being in yard hands for 6+ months, no. If it were me, I would thin the single armor deck to about 75mm (good enough against all in service splinters), and add as much height to the belt as you can, maybe even drop its thickness to get at least 5m of vertical coverage. A mid-life replacement of the engines can restore the thicker deck when the capabilities of long-range combat have improved enough to make that a more likely role for the ship. Maybe thin the end decks to give an end belt to protect against siginifgent slowing damage from medium guns at range?

All that said, its a good set of designs.

[Desertfox]

Renown never had so much armor....

[The Rock Doctor]

I think the belt height is to short. Only 3m leaves a lot of unarmored volume. I think all the designs have enough protected buoyancy to not be pounded to death with anything short of capital firepower, but soft-kills of things outside of the armored raft will be a major problem. Are they strong enough to win a two-ships-enter-one-ship-leaves fight, probly; can they do it again without being in yard hands for 6+ months, no. If it were me, I would thin the single armor deck to about 75mm (good enough against all in service splinters), and add as much height to the belt as you can, maybe even drop its thickness to get at least 5m of vertical coverage. A mid-life replacement of the engines can restore the thicker deck when the capabilities of long-range combat have improved enough to make that a more likely role for the ship. Maybe thin the end decks to give an end belt to protect against siginifgent slowing damage from medium guns at range?

All that said, its a good set of designs.

Thanks for those thoughts.  I'll keep them in mind if I decide to go with something in this category.

[The Rock Doctor]

Renown never had so much armor....

That's true, but I do like armor.

[The Rock Doctor]

This would be a cadet training cruiser based on the 1913 Orimiri class hull.  Major changes include elimination of the end belt, three fewer 13cm guns, and the loss of a knot of speed.  In return, the main deck level extends further aft to provide additional space for cadet quarters and instruction space.  The aft gun is superfiring in order to provide a fair bit of clear space aft for exercise, sports, and such.

In wartime, the ship would take on a standard cruiser role, for which it is still reasonably well equipped. 

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914

Displacement:
   4,704 t light; 4,879 t standard; 5,391 t normal; 5,800 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (463.42 ft / 459.32 ft) x 45.93 ft x (19.03 / 20.08 ft)
   (141.25 m / 140.00 m) x 14.00 m  x (5.80 / 6.12 m)

Armament:
      7 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.62lbs / 30.67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      4 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 481 lbs / 218 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.54" / 90 mm   298.56 ft / 91.00 m   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32,172 shp / 24,000 Kw = 27.07 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 921 tons

Complement:
   313 - 408

Cost:
   £0.488 million / $1.953 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 2.4 %
      - Guns: 129 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 958 tons, 17.8 %
      - Belts: 625 tons, 11.6 %
      - Armament: 31 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 301 tons, 5.6 %
   Machinery: 1,239 tons, 23.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,780 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 687 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 598 tons, 11.1 %
      - Hull above water: 250 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 298 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons
Fittings:
-13 t:  1908 Fire Control
-25 t LR Wireless
-25 t:  Night fighting doodads
-16 t:  2x2 18" tt, one set of reloads
-450 t:  Accommodation and classroom space for 125 cadets
-69 t:  Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,324 lbs / 3,322 Kg = 109.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.479
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.29 ft / 7.10 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.19 ft / 5.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,686 Square feet or 1,271 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 361 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather