Vilnius Union Ships, 1911 - 1919

[Kaiser Kirk]

Ironically, I'm currently working on incorporating the recommendations of my geologist into my timber harvest plan.
It's weird, she used maps and not power point, yet it's a real slideshow out there.

I do have a store of rock-related puns, some are marbelous, others are just good schist, but I'll be gniess and not tell you.
Besides you've probably heard them so many times you are jaded.

[The Rock Doctor]

I took it for granite that you would have such a store of puns but I shale not complain that you're holding back.

[Jefgte]

You can replace the 200mm twin turrets with 280 single turrets to get 2T2x280 + 4T1x280.
The 4 free 200mm turrets can be installed on 1 or 2 cruisers.

I did it on your Drasty and Niebez and I also increased the speed to 22kts.

;)

[The Rock Doctor]

My math said I couldn't pull that off, actually.

[Jefgte]

Test 2T2x280 + 4T1x280
21kts

Try again

[Kaiser Kirk]

To qualify under "Refurbishment " provision for : main battery turret/barbettes can be replaced by turret/barbettes of equal or smaller roller diameter or other components allowed during refurbishments.

The standard is the weight needs to be equal or lower to 'fit in the barbette'.

Putting a twin turret 200/45 into SS, I get 110t
Putting a single turret 280/45 into SS, I get 151t

So, unless I missed something, the single 280/45 will not fit the barbette for the twin 200/45.

[Desertfox]

Jef you used 254mm not 280mm.

[Jefgte]

Jef you used 254mm not 280mm.

Yes.

=> Rocky could use:

250mm/45 cal. 1905 tech, obus de 218,09 kg -
tourelle sur monture barbette (simple, twin)

2T2x250/45 +4T1x250/45

[TacCovert4]

So downgrade the main guns to 250s from 280s, and replace the twin 200s  with single 250s to give a uniform broadside of 8 x 250mm guns?

[Jefgte]

So downgrade the main guns to 250s from 280s, and replace the twin 200s  with single 250s to give a uniform broadside of 8 x 250mm guns?

Test 2T2x250 + 4T1x250
21kts

Try again

[The Rock Doctor]

It'd be a six gun broadside due to the layout, but yes.

[The Rock Doctor]

So downgrade the main guns to 250s from 280s, and replace the twin 200s  with single 250s to give a uniform broadside of 8 x 250mm guns?

Test 2T2x250 + 4T1x250
21kts

Try again

I'll have a look, I guess.

[The Rock Doctor]

This is a ball-park design, rather than a precise and finished product.

Anyway:

-Re-engined for 22 knots.  Any higher and the trim slips below 50%, and I'd have to spend more $ to change it again.  Seakeeping would support up to 23 knots, though.

-Original bunkerage retained; another 5500 nm @ 10 knots added to make it 50% oil-sprayed coal and 50% straight oil

-Entire armament replaced

-FC, CIC and wireless above deck; weight reserve on deck; Damage control above water; below water is the electric drive bits, the old torpedo room, and more damage control.

-There is still a fair bit of hull strength for...things...but things cost money.

-Estimated cost:  $11.3 and ~4.1 BP, but scrap value of discards is about $0.8 and 0.8 BP, so net cost is ~$10.5 and ~3.3 BP.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1902 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   15,178 t light; 15,809 t standard; 16,726 t normal; 17,459 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (452.76 ft / 452.76 ft) x 78.74 ft x (25.26 / 26.20 ft)
   (138.00 m / 138.00 m) x 24.00 m  x (7.70 / 7.99 m)

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal guns - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.85lbs / 1.74kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4,919 lbs / 2,231 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   294.29 ft / 89.70 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   158.43 ft / 48.29 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   294.29 ft / 89.70 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   5th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 33,513 shp / 25,001 Kw = 22.10 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,650 tons (45% coal)

Complement:
   734 - 955

Cost:
   £1.113 million / $4.453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,185 tons, 7.1 %
      - Guns: 1,185 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 6,286 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 3,124 tons, 18.7 %
      - Armament: 1,735 tons, 10.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,150 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Towers: 277 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 1,222 tons, 7.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,435 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,547 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,050 tons, 6.3 %
      - Hull below water: 500 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,845 lbs / 16,259 Kg = 75.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 51.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,310 Square feet or 2,537 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 754 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.10
      - Longitudinal: 2.78
      - Overall: 1.20
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Warning: Date too early for anti-air gun - 5th Battery

[The Rock Doctor]

So I end up with a twenty year-old hull that has the armament of an armored cruiser but the speed of a battleship, which is not necessarily a winning formula...

[Kaiser Kirk]

So I end up with a twenty year-old hull that has the armament of an armored cruiser but the speed of a battleship, which is not necessarily a winning formula...

To me the question is - what does it take for a foe to beat it, and how many of those vessels do the most likely opposing navies have?