Player Status Change

[snip]

Since this became more about what to do with Iberia, I've condensed my thoughts below.

With the removal of olekit24 from Iberia, we are faced with a challenge; how to manage a player power as an NPC. First, I don't want to demote Iberia to permanent NPC status. I think the area makes a great starter location for a new/inexperienced/rusty player. Second, I also don't want a black hole of information to exist there, we need at least some idea of what is going on. That said, I don't want to tie a player to a screwed up starting period that will need rework. Third, since Iberia sits in a geographically important area, having it GM managed is less than ideal. With that in mind, I have the following proposals. These can all exist independent of each other, but I feel the package is best.

Proposal One: Redo the Iberian Startup reports as averages of the player nations totals.

--My thought here is this. I don't want to lock a new player into handling a design legacy and cleaning up a mess s/he didn't create in the startup period. To resolve this, I propose that the Iberian Startup Report be redone as an average of the other player nations in all categories, including ship categories by year periods. This would allow for the rest of us to get a good idea of the sort of capabilities the Iberians possess while allowing any future player to begin crafting their own design legacy as the rest of us had the opportunity to do.

Proposal Two: Handle Iberian turn reports as averages of the player reports from the same turn.

--Much like Proposal One, this is ment to toe the line between providing flexibility to a future Iberian player while allowing for the rest of us to have an understanding of Iberian capabilities until such a time that happens.

Proposal Three: Iberian Colonial actions are handled by committee of active players

--To give a future Iberian player some colonial holdings, as a player base we can handle deciding where and Iberian colonies are established. This is done as a group to ensure nobody gets an, or is perceived of, having an unfair advantage in directing Iberian colonial activity away from their own colonial ambitions or into the path of others.

Proposal Four: Change ownership of Gibraltar from Iberia to Rome.

--The meat of this change is to place control of the Mediterranean exits under control of active players. With the Med being such a potential battleground, having its access in play is desirable. It also helps minimize the Roman two coast situation. My intent would be for this to just be a basic map redo, tho it would be possible for it to couple into my fifth proposal as a storyline action as well. I realize this change is more self-serving than the others.

Proposal Five: Have an Iberian Civil War that can serve as a WWI-analog for technological innovation and a storyline opportunity.

--This proposal would not require an immediate commitment and could be held till a later point in time. If the possibility of a new Iberian player becomes remote, I would like to use Iberia as a way to allow for a WWI analog to happen in a controlled way. This would me we could have the development of things like combat aircraft and tanks happen with some in-universe backing rather than just being a tech. It would also give us a rout to tone down Iberia's power level to be something more befitting a starter nation.

Please provide some feedback in this thread.

[The Rock Doctor]

1:  Errors aside, I didn't get the sense that the Iberian start-up was all that bad.  Am I mistaken?
2:  I don't know how we "average" the other five reports.  Explain?
3:  Sure, that's reasonable.
4:  I'm okay with that.
5:  I don't see a need for that right now, and don't think it serves a useful purpose at this time - the expected outcome would a loss of a lot of stuff, which wouldn't appeal to a new player.

[snip]

1. Some work is going to be necessary. If I do it solo, I'm making judgment calls on what gets cut and what stays. While I feel that you guys trust me to keep my player hat firmly off during that, I can see how a future player would not have that level of trust and be put off by some choices. On the other hand, if we do a community-based approach that's going to take much more time and Im not sure we want more time poured back into the startup.

2) My idea is to look at all the other nations reports and pull spending by category (eg, $X on economic projects, Y tonnage of new cruiser construction) and use that to produce a report. This allows documentation of rough capabilities while still leaving the details to be filled in at a later date. I think it can be a good balance between the need for understanding from current players, having some customization available for a new player, and GM overhead on producing a second report.

3) Cool

4) Ok

5) It's definitely intended as more of an Break in case of emergency item. I agree that we should make an effort to get a warm body in there first.

[Jefgte]

1 - We could also give BP bonus to the new player to make SS adjustments or build new ships in accordance with his style of ships.
2 - Idem, Bonus to personnal adjustements.
3 - OK for the comitee.
4 - Hmmm, Byzantine Empire disagree ...of course.
5 - Iberian Civil War; not necessary.
We have much work to do for colonial expeditions & go ahead.

;)

[Kaiser Kirk]

1)
   1a. The Iberian startup does require a reapportionment of regions and forts. I suspect there are other issues if I look forward. 
   1b. The ships I've viewed are a bit on the small and...well...weak side. The ones I've seen do not really excel anywhere. Many of the battleships have a refit notation, but no mention of in what   way they were refitted.
    Conclusion :
    I think leaving infrastructure portion alone until a new player comes is reasonable. At that time the regions/IC/BP/Forts can be moved.
    I really don't like the idea of there being a 450-odd BP blank slate out there with only the knowledge that X% is capital ships from 1901-1908, etc. 
    How about : A new player can substitute his/her designs for the post 1904 vessels, within 10% of the original tonnage- which could effectively be a small BP bonus for the Iberian position.

2. Acceptable.

3. Acceptable

4. Let's talk about Gibraltar. What is it game wise?  It's a fortress and harbor that overlooks the west end of a strait.  The strait is ~10m long and ~8.5wide and 900ft+ deep that gives access to the Med.  Ships there could intercept any traffic through the strait.   Now, there's no particular reason modern guns mounted elsewhere along the same strait, say at Ceuta and the headlands south of Algecerias, could not effectively close that strait. Spain was not a combatant in WWI or WWII, so this did not matter. 

IF Iberia holds it, it doesn't matter to much. Algecerias across the bay is a better harbor, guns at Ceuta down to Tarifa can mostly handle the strait.

IF Rome Holds it, Snip has a base to control/contest the strait, a harbor for damaged ships, and the ability to interdict traffic in the Strait. But realistically, while warships could probably run the strait with a few hits, a hostile Iberia could destroy any mercantile traffic attempting to transit.

For the Game, the most important factor is Iberia not being hostile to Rome, not who holds Gibraltar. So I'd rather leave it Iberian and ensure any new player knows the geopolitical requirement of being either friendly or neutral, up until the Romans declare war.

5. I don't see a real benefit to an Iberian civil war. If we were going to split the country, I'd rather just start that way.






edit : hey! I wasn't finished...stoopid compuuuter !

[Walter]

Not much to add to this...

1) Not sure about this but if you feel like it needs to be tweaked, then I guess it should.

2) Guess that will work.

3) Sounds okay, although I think it would help if we could see a map as the situation is at the end of H2/1910 to start thinking about what route Iberia would take. :)

4) [viking helm on] No. [viking helm off] More seriously, I think Kirk said it best.

5) I don't think an Iberian war will be necessary. Also I think that the Norse would be too busy with other things right now to bother with a minor skirmish in a Roman Catholic nation.

[The Rock Doctor]

So on Iberian colonization:

-Since I was mean and snatched up the Azores, I would expect them to nab Madiera and Cape Verde.

-If they want a settler colony area with minimal malaria, they've got to compete with me in the USA, compete with me in the Rio Plata area, or compete with Kirk in southern Africa.

-They'd probably want to nab a couple of good harbours in west Africa and maybe some of the Caribbean islands that haven't been grabbed yet.

-Resource-wise, eastern Brazil and western Africa are good places.  Maybe steer towards Lake Chad and the northern Congo if we want to set up Iberia on a ruinous road to a mega-project directing water from the latter to the former.

[Guinness]

I peek in periodically just to make sure all is well.

I'd love to play again, and could probably talk myself into it, but the reality is my life is a tad nuts, and I wouldn't want anyone to depend on me and then look up and realize it'd been months and I haven't kept up. On the plus side it would give me something to think about on long airplane rides...

[snip]

Let's touch base and see what we can figure out.

[The Rock Doctor]

Guinness:

Since the map thread you're inquiring in is locked, the legend is:

Dark Green:  Vilnius Union (The Rock Doctor)
Purple:  Byzantine Empire (Jefgte)
Yellow:  Northern Kingdom (Walter)
Red:  Imperial Roman Republic (snip)
Orange:  Parthian Empire (Kaiser Kirk)
Light Green:  Iberian Empire (ex-Olekit24

[snip]

I've removed the post in question in the other thread. Thats something I should add, when I get to adding the world maps for the turns.

[Guinness]

Gracias.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I peek in periodically just to make sure all is well.

I'd love to play again, and could probably talk myself into it, but the reality is my life is a tad nuts, and I wouldn't want anyone to depend on me and then look up and realize it'd been months and I haven't kept up. On the plus side it would give me something to think about on long airplane rides...

One option I'll kick out - Guinness takes the place of the player committee to pick out colonies for Iberia.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd endorse that, if Guinness was amenable.

[snip]

That sounds like a good idea in the meantime.