Imperial Roman Navy: 1910-1914 Designs

[The Rock Doctor]

I assume the main battery is twin over twin, all forward, like the historical Abdiel.

[snip]

No superfiring, one near the front of the fordeck and one near the rear of the fordeck, superstructure in between. This is so the aft 100mm mount can shoot aft over the rear of the ship.

[Jefgte]

Excellent & useful ship  ;)

[TacCovert4]

And inspiring....... ;)

[snip]

To start put a nice bow on things that are needed in the next sim report, the finalize sim of Jeanne d'Arc. Some minor adjustments in anti-aircraft armament and TDS bulkhead distance.

Jeanne d'Arc, Imperial Roman Large Armored Cruiser laid down 1914

Displacement:
   28,000 t light; 29,490 t standard; 31,670 t normal; 33,414 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (702.12 ft / 685.70 ft) x 101.71 ft x (28.54 / 29.79 ft)
   (214.00 m / 209.00 m) x 31.00 m  x (8.70 / 9.08 m)

Armament:
      8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1906 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 120 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 10,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 11,927 lbs / 5,410 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   445.70 ft / 135.85 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   239.96 ft / 73.14 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.57" / 40 mm   445.70 ft / 135.85 m   28.54 ft / 8.70 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 88.58 ft / 27.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.20" / 5 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,000 shp / 95,488 Kw = 29.55 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,923 tons

Complement:
   1,186 - 1,543

Cost:
   £3.470 million / $13.879 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,159 tons, 6.8 %
      - Guns: 2,159 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 7,974 tons, 25.2 %
      - Belts: 3,443 tons, 10.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 741 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 1,662 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,924 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 4,931 tons, 15.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,995 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,670 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,940 tons, 6.1 %
      - Hull below water: 1,350 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 400 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,339 lbs / 18,297 Kg = 33.6 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.557 / 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.19 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m
      - Aft deck:   50.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      22.84 ft / 6.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 48,991 Square feet or 4,551 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Quarter deck armor represents a 25mm armored deck and an additional 35t of armor protection for stearing gear rather than a uniform 35mm armored deck.

Misc Distribution
--Below Water (1350t)
----1235t Electric Drives
----40t Additional Pumps
----35t Enhanced Subdivision
----20t Enhanced Damage Control Equipment
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
--Above Water (150t)
----50t Improved Officer Accommodations
----50t Improved Crew Accommodations
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Short-Range Wireless (x2)
----10t Construction Reserve
--On Deck (400t)
----216t 1912 Fire Control
----60t Flag Facilities
----20t Admiralty Accommodations
----50t Long-Range Wireless (x2)
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----20t Night Fighting Equipment
----14t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (40t)
----20t Improved Aquisition Structures
----10t Night Fighting Equipment
----10t Improved Signaling Equipment

[Jefgte]

...Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   445.70 ft / 135.85 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   239.96 ft / 73.14 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length...

I think you must have 90mm Upper Belt (?)

[TacCovert4]

...Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   445.70 ft / 135.85 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   239.96 ft / 73.14 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length...

I think you must have 90mm Upper Belt (?)

Not once you reach a certain capital ship tech.  Forgot it right off since I'm on my phone.   But its right around this time when new ships might not have upper belts.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Why does it have a mixed 140mm & 100mm battery? That's not good for anti-MTB/DD fire control, wind up with the 'multiple ship' penalty for your own shells.

correct

1910: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes, "Pair of Twins" Quadruple turrets

The "All or Nothing" allows you to forgo armor outside the 'armored raft'.

Like most techs, the date seems to relate to a real event about 2 years later, in this case the end of 1912 (eff 1913) laydown of USS Nevada, which had AON, and the 1913 laydowns of the Quad-turret French Normandie class.

To me the interesting thing is the 1912 Fire control tech allows ranges of 14km.
Now it's belt is probably proof against it's own guns at 14km, but secondary and tertiary guns can be effective at that range and very well may be starting fires and wrecking your topsides  if you're close enough for effective FC. Not until 1918 tech comes in does the range expand.  Even then, only when visibility allows.

The armor the ships is also aimed at the longer ranges, so the expectation may be it won't fight other capital ships in close, but only at long range.
But at that point the deck armor at 60mm is both a little light for diving shells, and vulnerable to splinters from shells over 360mm. Admittedly that's newer guns, but this is a ship laying down in 1914, entering service 1918...

To be planning on fighting at 18-24km now is unreasonable foresight, as the needed fire control and communications and planes aren't at the point where a plane can carry a radio or a ship can effectively aim at that range.

So perhaps it's just not meant to fight other capital ships? It has great range, perhaps a heavy raider?

[snip]

Jeanne's existence is meant as an anti-armored cruiser. Big and nasty enough to be able to trounce anything she can catch, and run from what can reliably hurt her. Basically the same reason the Respublica exists, just better at it by virtue of being younger. The armor derives from this, its enough as you note to keep her vitals and buoyancy (reasonably) safe from harm up to capital ship weapons at longer ranges. Sure the sections outside the armor will get damage from lighter weapons, but what an upper belt or multiple armored decks would reasonably protect would be not that much for the cost they would add in weight. The preservation of buoyancy and speed is why she retains full length waterline armor, 50mm is viewed as adequate at keeping out more numerous smaller guns at range while armoring against known heavier, but slower firing, armored cruiser main guns would again be to expensive in weight. Untimely, its far easier to repair a ship that to build a new one and that is what her armor seeks to accomplish against planned foes. Will she be face ships with capital sized weapons, its likely but the only ones I would have any reasonable idea about that can stand up to her speed when JdA is started would be the Wicklows and Eupatorias.

As for the deck and >360mm splinters, the only guns I see as of 1913H2 that are in development or in service over that threshold are my 410mm, Parinthian 365mm, and Byzantine 381mm. I realistically only have to worry about getting shot at by one of those (many many things would go wrong to end up on the business end of the Parinthian or my own guns) and the Jeanne is not meant for the Med.

The mixed 140/100 battery is a current "feature/bug" of Roman capital ships as the 140 is felt to be to slow firing to be an effective uniform anti-TB battery, while the 100 does not have the range or stopping power to be the same. The obvious answer is something in the 115-130mm range, but that takes dev time. Without any direct combat experience to the contrary, the shell splash issue will be a rude discovery as to how bad it really is when that combat experience becomes available. The 140s are at least large enough to be reasonable weapons to turn on the upper works of larger ships and can hurt older or smaller cruisers quite well.

The 7000@14knts is the new standard for Roman ships, allowing for a rapid transit of the Atlantic (~4500nm from Brest to Texas) to arrive in the Caribbean with what is felt to be enough reserve fuel to conduct an engagement without opportunity to refuel after crossing. What it allows for a large armored cruiser to do as a raider or counter-raider is secondary.

[The Rock Doctor]

It's a tough ship to design against.  One either duplicates, builds something even more expensive, or just does not compete.

[Jefgte]

The choice "All or Nothing" is debatable.
For me, "It's All and a Little".
Reducing the size of impacts (hull holes) and the effect of explosions is not without interest for the performances of the ship and the men during the battles.

Just my thinking...

[TacCovert4]

The choice "All or Nothing" is debatable.
For me, "It's All and a Little".
Reducing the size of impacts (hull holes) and the effect of explosions is not without interest for the performances of the ship and the men during the battles.

Just my thinking...

To some degree it really matters what the ship is likely to get into.  A Battleship (once the ranges start stretching) for instance is unlikely to get into a firefight where it's going to take hits that end belts or even upper belts can help against, and be worth all the extra tonnage.  However, at that same point, it's highly likely to take large-caliber hits to the main belt or deck and those being as thick as possible will help keep fire and water out of important things like boiler rooms and magazines. 

On the other hand, a cruiser or even a battlecruiser (thinking about independent operations) is more likely to get into those sorts of situations.   and is more likely to get into those situations far from a fleet train that can help quickly and efficiently patch up holes or even replace some lost crew. 

[snip]

The last of my H1 new constructions, the Pilum class Large Destroyers. Intended to serve as leaders to the existing small destroyer flotillas as well as be capable of outright destroyer duties. The range doesn't quite stretch to be able to hop from Brest to Cuba/Texas in one go at 14knt, but should be able to make the journey on one full bunker at a slower speed.

LRD-14B, Imperial Roman Destroyer laid down 1914

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,567 t standard; 1,760 t normal; 1,914 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (354.32 ft / 344.49 ft) x 31.17 ft x (13.94 / 14.75 ft)
   (108.00 m / 105.00 m) x 9.50 m  x (4.25 / 4.50 m)

Armament:
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 225 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      1 raised mount aft
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 254 lbs / 115 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 32.26 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 347 tons

Complement:
   135 - 176

Cost:
   £0.260 million / $1.039 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 38 tons, 2.2 %
      - Guns: 38 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 993 tons, 56.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 415 tons, 23.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 260 tons, 14.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     382 lbs / 173 Kg = 12.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.411 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   10.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.60 ft / 4.15 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,655 Square feet or 618 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 0.57
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

--25t Long Range Wireless
--18t 2x3 530mm Torpedo [Centerline mounts, for and aft of the Q-mount 100mm guns]
--4t 1912 FC
--3t Flotilla Command Facilities

[snip]

Something a bit less sexy, but important. With the Rapid Atlantic Transit now a real strategic thing, the existing fleet train cannot keep up with new units in the pipe. A updated and slightly large version of the Faber Ferraius is planned, named Malleus Vulcani. Able to handle out-of-port supply for a massive amount of shipping, the Malleus Vulcani has the speed to keep up with newer warships. At least one planned, constructed to civilian standards.

FSS-14, Imperial Roman Fleet Support Ship laid down 1914

Displacement:
   9,140 t light; 9,361 t standard; 10,628 t normal; 11,643 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (426.51 ft / 426.51 ft) x 49.21 ft x (23.79 / 25.81 ft)
   (130.00 m / 130.00 m) x 15.00 m  x (7.25 / 7.87 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 75 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 50 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      2 double raised mounts
      4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 10,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 179 lbs / 81 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
   1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,000 ihp / 5,968 Kw = 16.41 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,282 tons

Complement:
   523 - 680

Cost:
   £0.506 million / $2.026 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 35 tons, 0.3 %
      - Guns: 35 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 79 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 74 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 478 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,948 tons, 18.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,488 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6,600 tons, 62.1 %
      - Hull below water: 3,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 2,000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 1,200 tons
      - Above deck: 400 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,155 lbs / 5,967 Kg = 157.1 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.74

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.745 / 0.752
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 29
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.46 ft / 4.71 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,505 Square feet or 1,626 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 339 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Distribution
--Below Water (3000t)
----3000t Resupply
--Above Water (2000t)
----2000t Resupply
--On Deck (1200t)
----700t Resupply
----500t Cranes and other logistical equipment
--Above Deck (400t)
----200t Resupply
----200t Cranes and other logistical equipment

[TacCovert4]

Interesting boat.  Similar to my Sojourner class but with less armament.   Which makes sense given that the sojourners are made for trans Pacific operations and could find themselves operating with a very light escort or no escort for periods.