Imperial Roman Navy: 1910-1914 Designs

[Kaiser Kirk]

The ability to use full power in reverse is why I'm putting Electrics on all of my landing ships.  If they are grounded in the process of running Marines ashore, they can use full power to pull themselves off.  Plus I add tonnage for a hydraulic motored winch and stern anchor which can be dropped or run out by boat to give yet more pulling power for an un-beaching.

This makes me a little concerned.
The effectiveness of landing craft is governed by your amphibious tech.
Not by what ships you may or may not have in your fleet.

Standard amphibious transport is completely covered by your deployment points.

[TacCovert4]

The ability to use full power in reverse is why I'm putting Electrics on all of my landing ships.  If they are grounded in the process of running Marines ashore, they can use full power to pull themselves off.  Plus I add tonnage for a hydraulic motored winch and stern anchor which can be dropped or run out by boat to give yet more pulling power for an un-beaching.

This makes me a little concerned.
The effectiveness of landing craft is governed by your amphibious tech.
Not by what ships you may or may not have in your fleet.

Standard amphibious transport is completely covered by your deployment points.

Well, good thing I'm not building them in vast numbers currently.  I guess that means I basically have some smaller fleet tenders it seems.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Well, good thing I'm not building them in vast numbers currently.  I guess that means I basically have some smaller fleet tenders it seems.

It's a little better than that.
Foxy did use use his exploration ships to dash over from Japan and land listening posts on Korean islands.
The speed and armament of those vessels was therefore a variable for that small scale job.
Otherwise he would have had to send generic transports.
..which what the Chinese did later. But since the Korean islands are a great deal closer to their ports, they were able to respond unmolested.

I just wanted to make sure you (and any others) were aware that what matters for that sort of thing is the tech.
The pregame decision is that auxiliaries are not a sector that players have to worry about if they don't want to.
The only exception being fleet train (Fleet supply) if you want to operate away from bases.

[snip]

Since I have two huge rivers in my colonial clutches, some small river gunboats are in order. Coal fired to allow for use of wood in emergencies, simple engines for ease of upkeep in more remote areas.

RGS-14, Imperial Roman Colonial River Sloop laid down 1913

Displacement:
   165 t light; 170 t standard; 195 t normal; 215 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (170.60 ft / 170.60 ft) x 22.15 ft x (3.28 / 3.55 ft)
   (52.00 m / 52.00 m) x 6.75 m  x (1.00 / 1.08 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 75 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1913 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 500 ihp / 373 Kw = 13.96 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 45 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   25 - 33

Cost:
   £0.019 million / $0.076 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 2 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 79 tons, 40.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 82 tons, 42.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 29 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     230 lbs / 104 Kg = 82.6 x 1.8 " / 45 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.76
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 8.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.561
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m,  5.74 ft / 1.75 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.74 ft / 1.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 134.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,637 Square feet or 245 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

[snip]

And a larger CDS intended for the Amazon as there are not quite enough modern capital units to go around.

CCDS-13, Imperial Roman Colonial Coast Defense Ship laid down 1913

Displacement:
   5,000 t light; 5,207 t standard; 5,385 t normal; 5,527 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (306.76 ft / 306.76 ft) x 73.82 ft x (16.40 / 16.73 ft)
   (93.50 m / 93.50 m) x 22.50 m  x (5.00 / 5.10 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 242.51lbs / 110.00kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,493 lbs / 677 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   201.54 ft / 61.43 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   108.50 ft / 33.07 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      7.09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.20" / 5 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 4,000 ihp / 2,984 Kw = 14.84 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 320 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   313 - 408

Cost:
   £0.416 million / $1.665 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 498 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 498 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 2,306 tons, 42.8 %
      - Belts: 1,349 tons, 25.1 %
      - Armament: 253 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 652 tons, 12.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 261 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,570 tons, 29.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 385 tons, 7.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 365 tons, 6.8 %
      - Hull below water: 75 tons
      - Hull above water: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,976 lbs / 5,886 Kg = 45.9 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.507 / 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m,  10.66 ft / 3.25 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.66 ft / 3.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,190 Square feet or 1,411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 488 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.86
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.

[TacCovert4]

I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.

I would agree.  Tonnage that could probably be better spent elsewhere.  The french liked to put armor on their river boats to resist mg fire since an mg ambush is likely.

[snip]

I feel like the river sloops have somewhat excessive range for their mission, even if the rivers in question are long.

The range is derived from the coal load of the Doudart de la Gree, a French riverboat from 1908 in the China service, which served as the base for this design. While I agree the range feels long, I'm thinking its more of an asset than a issue since you have a large amount of operational reserve for what will amount to out-and-back voyages with one way against the current. That going against a consistent current is something that SS does not model and I would suspect the practical operating range to be less because of it. Also with resupply being limited to one, maybe two, locations a lot more overhead to cover times the ship may be loitering in one location but still needing to keep steam up makes sense to me.

[maddox]

45 tons of coal represents 50m³

Fills a nice amount of sandbags. 

[snip]

So all this discussion elsewhere about mines made me realise that I dont realy have any meaningful mine-laying capacity and this seems useful to possess. While I've got a bunch of obsolete VTE cruisers I can convert into ok-ish platforms for mining, I dont have anything fast that can do the job. Im thinking this is a good starting point. Misc wieght is intended to be 150 mines and 50t of other goodies like FC, wireless sets, etc. The inspiration should be clear.

Not-Abdiel, Imperial Roman Fast Mine Cruiser laid down 1914

Displacement:
   3,238 t light; 3,324 t standard; 3,750 t normal; 4,091 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (410.09 ft / 400.26 ft) x 40.19 ft x (14.76 / 15.82 ft)
   (125.00 m / 122.00 m) x 12.25 m  x (4.50 / 4.82 m)

Armament:
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1906 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 130 lbs / 59 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 50,000 shp / 37,300 Kw = 31.04 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 767 tons

Complement:
   239 - 311

Cost:
   £0.488 million / $1.950 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 24 tons, 0.6 %
      - Guns: 24 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,882 tons, 50.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,130 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 512 tons, 13.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 5.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,734 lbs / 787 Kg = 56.8 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.562
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.01 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.07 ft / 0.63 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.36 ft / 4.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,254 Square feet or 1,046 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 271 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 0.90
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[eltf177]

Something's wrong. You list four 3.94-inch guns but only give locations for two.

[snip]

Should be twin mounts, does not change anything drastic.

[eltf177]

OK, still a bit confused about layout of the guns.

Also, your composite strength is 0.90; shouldn't that trigger a "hull strain in open seas" warning?

[Kaiser Kirk]

OK, still a bit confused about layout of the guns.

Also, your composite strength is 0.90; shouldn't that trigger a "hull strain in open seas" warning?

SS seems balanced for battleships, not taking into account the lighter weight scantlings and engines typically found on cruisers and destroyers.
So we allow lesser hull values, this is cruiser architecture, so 0.9 is allowed under our rules.

As for the warning...dunno, guessing Snip may have deleted it as it's not accurate per our rules.

[TacCovert4]

Sometimes SS recognizes that you're building a light fast ship, and accordingly will let you get away with .9 before it starts freaking out.