Imperial Roman Navy: 1910-1914 Designs

[snip]

So, to catch myself back up, I figured I would outline the Imperial Navy's current construction plans so you guys can tell me how bad they are. I will pick this up as of Jan 1 1911. The Imperial Roman Navy is adjusting to the reality that technology is moving very rapidly, creating a more limited effective life for its ships, and that it's new job of guarding the route to the riches of the New World is going to require some adjustments.

Battleships:

The battleship core of the IRN is older and slow. Only two ships in service right now can make more than 18knts, the Invictas at 21knts. The coming Praeventores class matches this and have 50% more firepower. Ultimently the IRN would like a core of eight battleships with similar characteristics to the Praeventores class. Current plans call for laying down a pair of new Praeventores-types every 2-3 years. The 1912 version looks quite good, and I know roughly how I want to develop the type.

For the older ships, there will be some scrappings and refits. The old simple reciprocating engine ships (Gloriousm and Hadrian IX classes) will be decommissioned and likely scrapped. The gain from scraping these two classes will likely be used to refit the Imperito class for dedicated overseas service. Eventually, they would be replaced in that role, but that is more a 1920's idea.

Armored Cruisers & Battlecruisers:

Not many ships to cover here. The two existing ships are quite outclassed. The Pegasum is due for the breakers, but Im tempted to play with refits to make her the Caribbean flagship. Argonauta is still useful, but with some of the big, fast Norse ships around she is more of a liability than an asset these days. At some point I see her ending up in the Caribbean because she is still a tough nut for a non-battlecruiser to crack. The Respublica is probly a little slow, but should be a good heavy fast unit for a while. Future developments here don't really have a plan, the Respublica is viewed as a one-off, unless Battlecruisers start really taking off.

Cruisers:

Much like the battleships, the IRN has a lot of old and slow cruisers. The Ariminum class needs to be phased out and scrapped. The 1910 class (I should really name this) is going to be the replacement. The plan is for the 1910 class to serve as the rough template for cruisers going forward. Refreshed every 2-3 years, the plan is mostly to improve speed and/or range. At some point a change in armament will be warranted, whether or not its a rearrangement of roughly the existing gun loadout or a more substantial change depends on international developments. The Aosta class is being eyed as a candidate for refit for Caribbean service because they have large reserves.

Destroyers and Torpedo Craft

The current F-class destroyers are going to be replacing a lot of the smaller reciprocating engine torpedo craft in service. The plan is to have 40 F-Class Destroyers finished by the beginning of 1914. It's enough to replace the A and B class destroyers in active service. After that, a new standard design will be looked at to expand the number of Destroyers in service. Consideration is being given to stationing the B-Class overseas, but the A-Class is headed to the breakers within the next couple of years. The small Torpedo Boats are also headed to the breakers, their role will be taken over by Motor-Torpedo boats.

[snip]

With the completion of the 1910 Captial tech and 1912 Fire Control, the successor to the Praeventores class begins to take shape. There are three designs based on similar hull forms.

First is the most linear progression from the Praeventores. Featuring the same main gun battery, now with a Superfiring pair forward, an impressive secondary battery, and an improved armor layout the A design is meant to add to the existing 21knt battleline.

1912 Battleship Design A, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,500 t light; 29,260 t standard; 30,226 t normal; 30,999 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 16,776 lbs / 7,609 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      3.15" / 80 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.3" / 440 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 38,000 shp / 28,348 Kw = 21.34 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,739 tons

Complement:
   1,146 - 1,490

Cost:
   £2.658 million / $10.632 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
      - Guns: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
   Armour: 11,556 tons, 38.2 %
      - Belts: 4,510 tons, 14.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,239 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 2,820 tons, 9.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,781 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,515 tons, 5.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,553 tons, 31.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,726 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,340 tons, 4.4 %
      - Hull below water: 650 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,440 lbs / 21,065 Kg = 38.7 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.680 / 0.682
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,674 Square feet or 4,336 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 906 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

However, there are elements within the Navy that view the recent colonial acquisitions as an opportunity to change the course. The B design cuts down on the main battery to create one of, if not the fastest, battleship in the world. The armor remains unchanged.

1912 Battleship Design B, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,770 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      8 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 11,926 lbs / 5,409 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      3.54" / 90 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.3" / 440 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 68,000 shp / 50,728 Kw = 24.81 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons

Complement:
   1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
   £2.384 million / $9.535 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,514 tons, 8.3 %
      - Guns: 2,514 tons, 8.3 %
   Armour: 11,835 tons, 39.2 %
      - Belts: 5,136 tons, 17.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,394 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armament: 2,319 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,779 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,711 tons, 9.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,770 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,429 tons, 8.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,940 tons, 6.4 %
      - Hull below water: 1,250 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,862 lbs / 21,256 Kg = 39.1 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 805 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Design C is an attempt to merge the A and B, but comes at the expense of armor.

1912 Battleship Design C, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,572 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      14 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 16,013 lbs / 7,263 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.54" / 90 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.97" / 50 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.3" / 440 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 24.04 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons

Complement:
   1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
   £2.740 million / $10.960 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,378 tons, 11.2 %
      - Guns: 3,378 tons, 11.2 %
   Armour: 10,430 tons, 34.5 %
      - Belts: 4,235 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 775 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 2,713 tons, 9.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,501 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,392 tons, 7.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,682 tons, 32.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,627 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,690 tons, 5.6 %
      - Hull below water: 1,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,808 lbs / 18,964 Kg = 34.9 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[Jefgte]

I choose  A design
27500t - 12x340 - B340 - 21kts with 1912 engines

=> Made SS reserve to have 24-25kts,  later, in 1926-27, during the 10y major refit.
;)

[Kaiser Kirk]

Edit : rewrote, added blather.

To me, "A" and "C" are the contenders.
After looking at things, I would take "A", no "C"... ok, I've gone back and forth, but the additional 10mm deck armor and 30mm TDS armor on "A" is functionally wasted.
The lack of 20mm Belt armor on "C" is not great, but 89% hull space means the protective deck fits all the important stuff under it, so it's actually a 320mm backed by the armor deck slope - not bad. The combination should bounce shells very nicely.  The Parthians overdo it and try to have the main belt stop the shells and the deck stop all splinters.

At this point, the actual speeds of the 1909-10 laydown vessels is unlikely to be known, but Rome should know that none of the 1905-6 capital ships has demonstrated extra speed.
So stretching for 24 knots would give a theoretical  edge over the Norse or the Byzantines.

So..same guns, functionally same deck/TDS effectiveness, close to the same belt effectiveness. Speed might not be a bad investment going forward. So "C'"..no A...err "C".

Comments :
With the torpedoes of "now" an 80mm bulkhead is almost certainly excessive to the need.
I will note a technicality- the beam inside bulkheads is set to 24m, which doesn't seem to matter. But this means that your torpedo protection is only 2.5m wide on each side, which in practivce would matter alot...but not in the SS3.

The Belt armor - thinning from 340mm to 320mm , but backed by a protective deck of some thickness, not bad.

Deck armor : I believe you're running 70-75mm main and a 20-25mm upper?

I will note the lack of an upper belt. Which your research just means you don't have to have.
That makes having multiple armored decks a little odd.
Yet, 100 or 90mm of armor in a single deck would be severe overkill at a 14km range.
Also, since visibility in the North Sea is frequently about 12,000m...or less and your fire control is 14,000m, and both are inside the range of QF guns, dispensing with the side armor might be premature.

I am curious what you envision by combining such a high main belt with the protective deck.
I'm guessing you're emulating the American SDNs.

I'm guessing here what you're envisioning is the protective deck being a splinterdeck of 25mm, again meeting the sides about -2m, the belt rising from there 5.5m, to 3.5m above WL. Then capped by the remaining 65-75mm of deck armor ??

In which case the thinner 320mm of "C" may be a vulnerability, as the 25mm splinter deck will stop rivets/ejecta/chunks of shell, but won't stop splinters from a capital ship shell that bursts past the belt. So.."A".


Contrast that to the classic idea of a protective deck is it sits a little above the waterline, and it's edges descend below the waterline. There may be a higher armor deck that's thinner to stop cruiser-level weapons. The main belt needs to rise slightly above it to prevent plunging shells from going over the belt and hitting the slope of the deck.  So if the desk slope ends at -2m (deep for the period), and crowns at 0.5m or 1m above waterline, the belt might be 3-4m high. A shell penetrating that 320mm belt would then have to push past the 65-75mm armored slope of the main protective deck- very very difficult.

As a general observation, a straightline route, Brest->St. Augustine is ~3600nm, Cuba is about 3,900. If you ever have to send the fleet to the new world, they will be limited to a fairly direct slow route and will need fuel at the other end before engaging in combat.

Odd but true : I thought we weren't allowing bulbous bows, but when I looked at the Ship Design thread, it's only transoms. Guess I better convert over from ram bows....but they are so stylish. I've been going with the "cleaver" bow of late. 15deg forward, 2m ram. :)

[snip]

Thanks for the feedback. Let me hit a couple of things quickly first before some blathering of my own.

--Range: Since these have electric drives, the range issue is less pronounced than first appears. Something to keep in mind for sure, but at this point, Roman thinking has not fully grasped that.
--Bow: I meant to have those as a ram, not bulbous. Blame a random scroll wheel. :) Cleaver look ala Queen Elizabeth is indeed good looking.
--Armor: Protected decks were also not my intent. Should be Armored as in the previous classes.

In-Character blather: Until recently, the Roman navy has served one prime purpose, defense of the Albian Channel. Other items such as trade protection have been distant seconds. Rome is (or at least views itself as) the strongest land power in Europe, if not the world. Rome's naval forces exist to ensure that said land power can never be cut off from its English territories. After the transition from sail to steam, and wood to metal, the way to accomplish that has been though ships capable of taking massive punishment. If the fleet can stay afloat, it can always fight (in theory). Now for the first time in hundreds of years, the Channel is no longer the only place that Roman forces can be cut off. The whole of the Atlantic represents an arena which Rome must now contest. The how of that is what is up for debate here.

The first decision is one of staying the course in capital ship development or altering the fundamental role of the capital ship in the Roman navy. While the A design has its radical elements, such as the consolidation of secondary battery protection instead of a traditional upper belt, it holds true to the traditional tenants of the Roman battleship; extensive thick armor and punishing firepower. This design, more evolution than revolution, slots right in with the current and under construction classes. But perhaps radical change is needed, the plodding floating fortress might not be the weapon needed to protect the possessions of the new world.

As shown by Norse development with large armored cruisers, speed has used. Sometimes, the warship you are able to get somewhere fast enough is the best warship you have. With that in mind, the second option becomes clear, 21knts is no longer fast enough for a capital ship. But how do you get there, sacrifice firepower or sacrifice protection? Designs B and C show approximately what would be necessary to do each. Design B continues with excellent protection while being much faster, while Design C keeps punishing firepower.

Ultimately the expected service life of these ships means the question is an important one, and the answer will affect the Roman navy's doctrine and capabilities for years to come.

OOC blather: I've been sitting on the A design for a while. I've also got a general plan for where I want Roman capital ships to end up at a later point in time but I want the development to that point to make sense. In one way or another, each of the presented designs fits one step along that route. I'm starting to lean C as well, as its a little more interesting than rebuilding a traditional 21knt battleline (until some point in the future).

[snip]

Another contender. Basically the A design eliminating Y turret to make more room for 68000hp of engine. I like this as a "logical" choice rather than dropping back to twin turrets. Also lets me readd a 100mm upper belt. Looks more like an uparmored, slightly slower Respublica.

1912 Battleship Design D, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,696 t light; 29,234 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 30,972 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 13,138 lbs / 5,959 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 68,000 shp / 50,728 Kw = 24.81 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,738 tons

Complement:
   1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
   £2.494 million / $9.976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 11,342 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 5,142 tons, 17.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 2,125 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,941 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,711 tons, 9.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,183 tons, 30.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,503 tons, 8.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,690 tons, 5.6 %
      - Hull below water: 1,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42,478 lbs / 19,268 Kg = 35.4 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.681
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 848 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Will do things like clean up displacement later.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Thanks for the feedback. Let me hit a couple of things quickly first before some blathering of my own.

--Range: Since these have electric drives, the range issue is less pronounced than first appears. Something to keep in mind for sure, but at this point, Roman thinking has not fully grasped that.
--Bow: I meant to have those as a ram, not bulbous. Blame a random scroll wheel. :) Cleaver look ala Queen Elizabeth is indeed good looking.

I remembered the electric later, but figured you were aware of that.. :)
That cleaver bow is exactly what I'm trying for with my 15% forward, 2 foot ram bows. At least in the little image in SS it looks reasonable.

The question of speed is a thorny one.
Luckily, for Parthia's view of "the next war" she doesn't need battleship speed. Which is awfully convenient for me.

We haven't had any fleet battles like the Russo-Japanese war or Spanish-American war, or even Sino-Japanese war. 
Using speed to stay beyond the opposing range is one argument. But a bit moot in the North Sea and when the limiting factor is hitting more than 2% of the time (fire control)
Are fleets are relatively equal in mass, so building a faster ship means either larger & fewer or sacrificing armor/weapons.

As shown by Norse development with large armored cruisers, speed has used.

So food for thought :.. the Norse armored cruisers afloat, the newest commissioned one is ~17,000 tons and 27knots. Pretty much on par with Byzantine and Parthia.

So I presume you're concerned about the true battlecruiser Wicklow[/u] ....but according to the 1/11 Norse construction, Wicklow has 11 months and 15,000 tons to go before she starts sea trials.
So you're assuming in that when you're doing design work in 1911,  that you know the great speed of those ships? While they are 215m, the far slower battleship version is 206m, and the last battleships were 175m.   

Next .. Thor and Sif (just completing) will have more guns than B and D, of a larger caliber. Twin turrets also have a per-gun higher ROF than triples, so 5xT2 should put out more shells than 4xT3, and decidedly more than 3xT3. They also have a heavier belt, and similar speed. That's before getting to the still-building Calgacas

So...IF you had knowledge of Wicklow's design speed, then A-D are all to slow to catch it.  Personally, I've included a news bit about Jefgte's new armored cruisers appearing to be potentially much larger than the old ones, but Parthia will be 'surprised by his advance once those are in commission.

Meanwhile, B and D have less firepower than the existing Norse dreadnaughts they could catch.

So... speed might theoretically be useful.  The RN was looking at a fast wing that could support the BCs and also perhaps cross the T during a conventional battle...but the RN also had DNs to spare.

It could be that the 24-25knot range is intended to let you disengage from the 21knot Norse ships, while you feel confident in beating the new Norse BCs...

So..what would Rome know about the Norse plans in 1911?
How would 24 or 25 knots fit in Rome's plans long term in regards to that?

[snip]

So..what would Rome know about the Norse plans in 1911?

I think it's reasonable for Rome to know that there are three distinct classes of a capital ship under construction and that there is enough difference between them to hint at a speed increase on at least one class, but not the absolute numbers. Given the size of Calgacas, its possible that Rome thinks there are two Calgasas and one Wiklow instead of the other way around. Of course, Rome thinks they have this with the Respublica to serve as the big guns for the scouting force. If the Norse are only building one of these big armored cruisers, Respublica can match. It might be an expected surprise when they find out that Mayo is Wicklow's sister and not Calgacas'. It's bound to be an unexpected shock when Wicklow hits 29knts, 2knts faster than the Respublica.

tldr: Rome knows there is a Norse fast capital ship or two under construction, does not know specifics, but thinks there is already an equal under construction for the navy.

How would 24 or 25 knots fit in Rome's plans long term in regards to that?

Rome's thoughts with upping speed fall into two categories. First, Rome's battleline is probably always going to be numerically inferior to the Norse. Unless budget priorities change, the balance cannot be altered. Where it was not possible before to really push the speed of the battleline higher, with turbines getting more efficient by the year speeds can continue to increase. If the Roman line can be fast enough to influence a hypothetical engagement with the Norse fleet, it could be an advantage. Second, the recent speed increase of battleships in general is still fresh in the mind of Roman planners. When 21knt dreadnaughts first came into being, all the 18knt ships were obsoleted overnight. At some point in the future, that could happen again. With the expected service life of future Roman capital ships going up as costs increase, speed is a hard characteristic to improve. If the jump can be made now, it might help extend the useful life of these ships far longer than a 21knt version. This allows for a larger core battleline in the future. The 21knt ships could just be a stepping stone to higher overall fleet speeds rather than the new norm in place of 18knt.

tldr: Rome thinks another speed jump could come and that getting out ahead of it will help keep ships built now viable longer. This is good for small budgets that dont allow for huge numbers of battleships when priority number 1 builds a lot of them.

[snip]

I realised that the almost-25knts of Design D was probly a little to much. I dropped the engines to 60000hp and bumped the range (+500nm) and cruise speed (+2knts) up.

1912 Battleship Design D2, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,192 t light; 28,729 t standard; 30,199 t normal; 31,376 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 27.13 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.27 m)

Armament:
      9 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 13,138 lbs / 5,959 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.84" / 250 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 24.04 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,647 tons

Complement:
   1,145 - 1,489

Cost:
   £2.432 million / $9.726 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 2,769 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 11,342 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 5,142 tons, 17.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 2,125 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,941 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,392 tons, 7.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,198 tons, 30.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,008 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,490 tons, 4.9 %
      - Hull below water: 800 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,112 lbs / 20,916 Kg = 38.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.679 / 0.682
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,649 Square feet or 4,334 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 849 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Kaiser Kirk]

Trying to decide that "out of character" knowledge is always tough.
Parthia is going to wind up a bit puzzled when it's evident that there is all these very large fast ships- but there's reason for that.

To me, I don't think the 3x T3 is the best choice. *
At 1.6-1.8 rounds per gun vs. 1.8-2.0 rounds per gun, 3T3 should be 14.4-16.2 rounds/min, vs. 4T2 at 14.4-16.  That's equivalent, and you are concentrating firepower in 3 targets instead of 4.
So I liked the 4T3 designs better.  At least you're getting greater throw weight. 
...of course my Tiamat class is aiming to win the throw weight contest :)

The BC is still on the high side.
With the current speed, you could add depth and shorten the vessel for the same seakeeping and more comp hull.

I think I'd ask, how much does a 4xT3 "Cost" tonnage wise.  Drop the draft 0.5-0.75m and see if it "fits".

But overall a fairly redoubtable vessel as is.

* edit : My understanding was they moved to triples to fit more guns in a given length of hull, allowing them to shorten the citadel and so give it better armor. I suppose as hulls got beamier, a high % of buoyancy was in that midsection, so you could do the AoN raft body on a short hull length. Something SS does not calculate- it runs belt length as a function of overall length, not what's needed for buoyancy.

[snip]

Unless there is something massively wrong, I think this is what I'm going to do.

1912 Battleship Design F, Imperial Roman Republic Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   27,500 t light; 29,260 t standard; 30,226 t normal; 30,999 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (633.20 ft / 623.36 ft) x 95.14 ft x (26.25 / 26.83 ft)
   (193.00 m / 190.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (8.00 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      4 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.93lbs / 1.33kg shells, 450 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 110.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 16,776 lbs / 7,609 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   218.14 ft / 66.49 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.3" / 440 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,000 shp / 47,744 Kw = 24.43 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,739 tons

Complement:
   1,146 - 1,490

Cost:
   £2.803 million / $11.213 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
      - Guns: 3,536 tons, 11.7 %
   Armour: 10,338 tons, 34.2 %
      - Belts: 4,215 tons, 13.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 929 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 2,820 tons, 9.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,085 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 288 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,552 tons, 8.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,584 tons, 31.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,726 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,490 tons, 4.9 %
      - Hull below water: 800 tons
      - Hull above water: 200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 450 tons
      - Above deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,137 lbs / 18,206 Kg = 33.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     an extended bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.680 / 0.682
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.51 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,674 Square feet or 4,336 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Misc Distribution
--Below Water (800t)
----640t Electric Drive
----50t Additional Pumps
----20t Enhanced Damage Control Equipment
----20t Enhanced Ventilation and Crew Comfort
----70t Construction Reserve
--Above Water(200t)
----50t Flag Facilities
----60t Improved Officer Accommodations
----60t Improved Crew Accommodations
----20t Short-Range Wireless (x2)
----10t Construction Reserve
--On Deck  (450t)
----355t 1912 Fire Control
----40t Flag Facilities
----20t Admiralty Accommodations
----25t Long-Range Wireless
----10t Construction Reserve
--Above Deck (40t)
----20t Improved Aquisition Structures
----10t Additional Searchlights
----10t Improved Signaling Equipment

[Kaiser Kirk]

Armament:
      12 - 13.39" / 340 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,212.54lbs / 550.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1909 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      20 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     12 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.36" / 60 mm   405.18 ft / 123.50 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

I am not sure I understand what the guns are supposed to be doing.

I think I got :
Main battery A, raised B,  Q amidships,  Y?
that would be the 3 , 1 raised, then the 1 aft deck forward.

It's the secondary I'm trying to picture :
You have 20 5", all under 100mm armor in all directions,
all on the weather deck, except 8 of the 12 guns aft, which are in hull casements?

I see you hurried the 1910 Arch, so yes, no upper belt.

Basically a Pennsylvania which were good ships :)



Shallow TDS, but ok for period. Heavy bulkhead also.

[snip]

You got the main battery right.

Secondaries: Its been a while since I first noted that layout down, so I don't really recall my intent with the layout. If it comes back to me, I will post.

[snip]

A proposed "mid-cycle refresh" of the F-Class Destroyers. Change of armament from 4x100/L45 to 3x140mm/L55 as is standard on cruisers. Increase of SHP to 32k, for a 32.4knt top speed.

F-Class (140mm), Imperial Roman Republic Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,048 t standard; 1,114 t normal; 1,167 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (287.07 ft / 278.87 ft) x 29.53 ft x (11.48 / 11.84 ft)
   (87.50 m / 85.00 m) x 9.00 m  x (3.50 / 3.61 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      2 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.94lbs / 1.34kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      2 raised mounts
      4 - 0.26" / 6.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 264 lbs / 120 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 32.42 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 118 tons

Complement:
   96 - 125

Cost:
   £0.139 million / $0.556 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 59 tons, 5.3 %
      - Guns: 59 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 627 tons, 56.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 241 tons, 21.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 114 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 4.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons
      - Above deck: 5 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     211 lbs / 96 Kg = 2.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.412 / 0.419
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.23 ft / 0.68 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Forward deck:   44.00 %,  15.58 ft / 4.75 m,  15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Aft deck:   21.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,107 Square feet or 474 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 40 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 135 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.43
      - Longitudinal: 1.94
      - Overall: 0.50
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[snip]

Sometime I've been batting around for a little bit that I think I finally got into a place I kinda like. Currently, the Roman standard cruising speed is 10knts. At this speed, it take a ship 19 days and 8 hours to get to the furthest Roman colony of New Francia (OTL Texas). At higher speeds, this time comes down a lot. In order to make the trip in about a week, a speed of 24knts is required. Project Mercury has been the working name for a large cruiser designed to cruise at 24knts and have the range to make the 4638 nautical mile journey and still have some legs to fight with. This cruise speed has been the primary consideration of these designs and has dictated much of the compromises made.

Project Mercury III, Imperial Roman Armored Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   14,379 t light; 15,102 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 23,919 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (656.18 ft / 639.76 ft) x 74.64 ft x (26.25 / 30.33 ft)
   (200.00 m / 195.00 m) x 22.75 m  x (8.00 / 9.24 m)

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm 45.0 cal guns - 242.51lbs / 110.00kg shells, 175 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount aft
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 85.98lbs / 39.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1909 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,628 lbs / 1,192 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.54" / 90 mm   415.85 ft / 126.75 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   223.88 ft / 68.24 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   4.33" / 110 mm      7.09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.20" / 5 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 104,000 shp / 77,584 Kw = 30.19 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,817 tons

Complement:
   840 - 1,093

Cost:
   £1.496 million / $5.984 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 700 tons, 3.5 %
      - Guns: 700 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3,110 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 938 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armament: 773 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,342 tons, 6.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 4,075 tons, 20.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,969 tons, 29.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,621 tons, 28.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 525 tons, 2.6 %
      - Hull below water: 150 tons
      - Hull above water: 150 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 200 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,900 lbs / 12,201 Kg = 95.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.578
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.97 ft / 1.82 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m,  28.71 ft / 8.75 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      21.49 ft / 6.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,593 Square feet or 3,121 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 594 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Thoughts?