Possible Swiss Cruiser for 1906

[Desertfox]

Another possibility for 1906.


Phoenix class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   6,080 t light; 6,385 t standard; 8,358 t normal; 9,937 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 19.70 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.76 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,208 lbs / 548 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 39,880 shp / 29,750 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,552 tons

Complement:
   436 - 568

Cost:
   £0.593 million / $2.374 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 151 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 1,095 tons, 13.1 %
      - Belts: 635 tons, 7.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 58 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 366 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,813 tons, 21.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,922 tons, 35.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,278 tons, 27.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,548 lbs / 5,692 Kg = 116.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.53 ft / 5.65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,788 Square feet or 1,838 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 438 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Walter]

No drive to shaft

So how do you plan to move that ship forward? :D

[Desertfox]

I hate having to deal with engine date changes, fixed.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nice, powerful ship.
However, such mounts are limited to 1 inch armour.

Borys

[Desertfox]

Right on the mounts, they are based on the Omahas, so will have to fix that.

Another change is that the final version will only have 8x6" guns. Ill build a few of these in combination with a few Adventures (but with 5x8"), to try out the merits of each design.

[Desertfox]

Final version, between 2 and 6 of these will be built. They will introduce the first triple torpedo mount. Firts one will be laid down H2/07

NSS Aurora
NSS Atlantis

Aurora class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1907 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5,509 t light; 5,807 t standard; 7,792 t normal; 9,381 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 19.90 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.07 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 992 lbs / 450 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37,703 shp / 28,126 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,574 tons

Complement:
   414 - 539

Cost:
   £0.537 million / $2.148 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 124 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 893 tons, 11.5 %
      - Belts: 486 tons, 6.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 350 tons, 4.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,714 tons, 22.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,668 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,284 tons, 29.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,460 lbs / 5,198 Kg = 106.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 11.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.93 ft / 5.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,917 Square feet or 1,757 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[The Rock Doctor]

You've got a "no drive to shaft" comment buried in there.

What's going on with the freeboard?  Are you trying to sim a deck that gradually slopes aft?

[P3D]

Mounts still limited to 1" armor.
Another nitpick is that you don't have triple TTs. That comes with the 1908 Destroyer tech.

[Desertfox]

That comes from having to changed the engine year. Its been fixed.

Mounts only have 1" armor. And she is certainly not a destroyer.

[P3D]

Triple TTs certainly comes with the 1908 destroyer tech. Be they put on a DD, sloop, cruiser or BC.

[Earl822]

But that is playing the rules, and not the game, what is to say that one of the ships may be fitted with a trial unit, that is found unsatisfactory, and is latter removed? That is the basis of good basic writing material, not permanent and total adherance to a load of frankly imperfect, and unclear rules.

[P3D]

But that is playing the rules, and not the game, what is to say that one of the ships may be fitted with a trial unit, that is found unsatisfactory, and is latter removed? That is the basis of good basic writing material, not permanent and total adherance to a load of frankly imperfect, and unclear rules.

You cannot have perfect rules unless you have a tons of them. And until there are players who want to play the rules not the game, the number of rules won't decrease, but. And there are player like that.
If someone wants to build experimental units, he shoud do it while researching the relevant tech, AND preferably build a cheap vessel for the trials, not a 6000t cruiser like this.

And what is unclear in the rules? Torpedo tube technology was merged into the DD one, so you don't have to research two marginal techs. Still, it it valid for any ships.

Some nations almost have only experimental ships in the water.

[Earl822]

Torps of the period were mounted on nearly every type of vessel, with many Destroyers, even big 800ton one not having space for triple carriages. Cruisers, especially fine hulled PC's did,  but I do like that rule.

On the why spend lots of money on a experiment, the answer is simple, Politicians.

[Carthaginian]

Torps of the period were mounted on nearly every type of vessel, often Cruisers carried far more torpedo tubes than destroyers.

I think that the tubes are linked to DD design because being as space is at a premium in a DD, you have to pack as much into a small space as you can. A 6000 ton cruiser has plenty of room to mount 6 torps in 3 twin mounts, but a destroyer would need to condense them into 2 triple mounts due to it's smaller size.

It makes sense, since designers of larger ships wouldn't be as space conscious as a destroyer designer.

[Earl822]

I changed my post when I realised it didn't make sense. :-[