Parthian Empire

[The Rock Doctor]

It looks handy.

[TacCovert4]

Looks handy....like something I can't afford to construct because of a wealth of existential threats.

[The Rock Doctor]

Sometimes the little patrol and support stuff is the most fun to design, though.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I agree, these little ships can be very interesting.
I have a number of river gunboat and coastal gunboat designs I've been trying.
The 120L43 is now available, and I've got tons of seacoast needing "presence".

Cost is one issue.
They are about the size of the OTL Gruno class, I'd like them smaller, but I start sacrificing capability fast when I drop the size.

I'll probably build a trial one in HY1, then work in a steady production like with my minesweepers, rather than a bulk buy.

[TacCovert4]

I agree, these little ships can be very interesting.
I have a number of river gunboat and coastal gunboat designs I've been trying.
The 120L43 is now available, and I've got tons of seacoast needing "presence".

Cost is one issue.
They are about the size of the OTL Gruno class, I'd like them smaller, but I start sacrificing capability fast when I drop the size.

I'll probably build a trial one in HY1, then work in a steady production like with my minesweepers, rather than a bulk buy.

It does give me an idea about common hullforms.  And the possibility of doing torpedo boats and also doing sloops with the same hull and guns but with torpedoes replaced with ASW kit (future) or minesweeping kit.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I was viewing these as potentially future sloop "hull" for variants, swapping out some tonnage and the Howitzer for minelaying or ASW ability.
In Wesworld the similar class had underwater torpedoes, but the likelihood of using them just seems low.
I set it for 2000ihp, long run, I'd like more around 20kts speed, and so a future version might have an updated engine- maybe diesel.

[Kaiser Kirk]

A while ago I separated out my designs vs Official and sorted the "future" ones  by architecture so I could find them.

Sadly I report that I have the following.
Mind you have like 12 versions of one ship in some cases, like the Sealord and Baphumet,
while I have coastal patrols from ~250t to ~1000 in cruiser and a couple sentry vessels in cruiser and mercantile.

Capital Ship Arch : 1911-1918 : 146
Carrier Arch : Just 1, really haven't started on those
Cruiser Arch (Gunboats on up) : 1910-1916 : 91
Destroyer Arch : 1908-1913 : only 20, I think because the tonnage cap limits options. Basically I have fleet and coastal versions.
Mercantile : just 4. I tend to build what I sim, they tend to be mission and dimension created.
Minewarfare : also 4.  I've adopted a stock MS design. I'm building now 4/HY, by time they start retiring I'll have a force of 160.  I may build some smaller ones ala the Norse 80tonners.

[Kaiser Kirk]

With 1915 approaching, the Parthians are looking at far more projects than they have the budget to accomplsh.

These include
- Baphumet class Battleship
- "Sealoard" or Scythian fast battleship or Large Armored Cruiser
- Some sort of CDBB for 4 locations.
- A new Armored cruiser, returning to the old tonnages
- a slight update to the 1913 Maelstrom class Scout Cruiser (protected cruiser)
- A 'Pacific' destroyer with long range
- Continue building large Aux ships
- explore small AUX depot ships
- Explore small AUX ships for a variety of roles.

And ..start rebuilding older ships.
I can't do it all.... argh

So I'll be throwing up some designs, sometimes 2 takes at 1 vessel, and working out what I can afford to actually do.

[Kaiser Kirk]

This is one of two 'Takes' on the Pacific Destroyer.
Name is a lost Persian device for throwing 5 arrows at once.

This is the 120mm one, with 4 guns bearing forward, and 5 broadside...only 1 aft.

Panjagan, Parthian Pacific  Destroyer laid down 1915

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,069 t standard; 1,225 t normal; 1,350 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (325.48 ft / 321.52 ft) x 30.35 ft x (11.15 / 11.89 ft)
   (99.21 m / 98.00 m) x 9.25 m  x (3.40 / 3.62 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 43.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 43.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 331 lbs / 150 kg

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,479 shp / 16,769 Kw = 30.25 kts
   Range 5,300nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 281 tons

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.197 million / $0.787 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 52 tons, 4.2 %
      - Guns: 52 tons, 4.2 %
   Machinery: 615 tons, 50.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 286 tons, 23.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 225 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 48 tons, 3.9 %
      - Hull void weights: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 32 tons
      - Above deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     338 lbs / 153 Kg = 6.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.47
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.394 / 0.407
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.71 ft / 3.57 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,982 Square feet or 556 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room



Guns are in A, B, 1, 2, Q, Y positions.

Torpedoes :
3 Triple Tubes with 2 fore/aft of "Q"
and one aft of "Y"

Misc Weight :
10t misc weight
27t - 9x 21"
6t - FC
5t - Imp Ventilation

[Kaiser Kirk]

This is much the same vessel,
but with fewer 130mm guns instead. The Deck mounts have light spray housings.
4 guns bear forward, 4 abeam, 1 aft.

Panjagan, Parthian Ocean Destroyer laid down 1915

Displacement:
   998 t light; 1,069 t standard; 1,225 t normal; 1,350 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (325.57 ft / 321.52 ft) x 30.35 ft x (11.15 / 11.89 ft)
   (99.23 m / 98.00 m) x 9.25 m  x (3.40 / 3.62 m)

Armament:
      3 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 353 lbs / 160 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.12" / 3 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,269 shp / 17,359 Kw = 30.50 kts
   Range 5,300nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 281 tons

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.203 million / $0.811 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 68 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 613 tons, 50.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 274 tons, 22.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 33 tons
      - Above deck: 7 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     326 lbs / 148 Kg = 4.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.394 / 0.407
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.09 ft / 4.60 m,  12.63 ft / 3.85 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.63 ft / 3.85 m,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.83 ft / 3.30 m,  12.63 ft / 3.85 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.79 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,982 Square feet or 556 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room



Guns are in A, B, 1, 2 , Y positions.
Deck Guns have a light 3mm gun housing meant for spray and blast protection, casement guns are protected by the superstructure.

Torpedoes :
3 Triple Tubes with 2 fore/aft of "Q"
and one aft of "Y"

[snip]

I personally like the 130mm version better. The hits will "count" more with 7kg difference in shell weight. I presume that the L50s will also have a flatter shell arc than the L43s and that would likely be more favorable to shooting at smaller, maneuvering targets.

[The Rock Doctor]

Those are certainly fine hulls.  My own 1915 can looks rather underarmed in comparison.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Guns - I prefer slightly slower and heavier armed destroyers, their main mission isn't to run suicidally close in to try to torpedo capital ships*, I have MTBs for that. Their mission is to patrol and to go kill the little enemy ships...their original role  of "Destroyers".
Parthian DDs have repeatedly featured superstructure casements for forward fire - I could do waist guns, but casements are so delightfully archaic and so keep appearing in my designs. :)

I actually start DDs at .4 to .42 BC and work from there. 
I'm trying to avoid 12:1 and 0.38 as that just feels 'too much'.
10.6 L:B and ~.4 BC is a fair distance from that limit.

As for the 120/43 vs. 130/50, 
The 120/43 was developed using a later gun tech than the 120/45 so you could have more ME... or a shorter piece with similar ME.
That was meant to be the Destroyer standard taking over for the 90/45, and entered service with the Seahawk class.
I plan on continuing Seahawk 750t DDs for the Merica-Africa Theaters.

But shortly after I started those, I also started the 130/50 thinking I could use that as a new secondary instead of the 165mm.  A bit faster, but just as effective vs. DDs - if not more due to a higher ROF.

So now that I could build a Pacific Destroyer, I actually hoped to cram 8x 120mm, but failed, and then wondered...hey how many 130mm? Turns out a useful number.

[Jefgte]

I prefer slightly slower and heavier armed destroyers...

I agree, cost for high speed in 1915 is too much.

Perso, I prefer 6x 120mm guns because, you could later remove 1 gun to add AA guns. There will be 5 x120mm, still serious.
With 5x130mm ... Remove 1 gun to add AA guns. There will be just 4x130mm.

[snip]

Or you can yank a set of fish for it as well. Assuming that the mission is not to go after capitals.