Re: NPC Design contest: Brazilian Battleship 1904

[Walter]

1) What is Brazil's revenue? Can they afford to pay $20.70 per half year without neglecting other aspects of the nation?
2) With order to be placed in the later half of 1904, does that mean the ships are to be laid down in 1905?

[snip]

1) What is Brazil's revenue? Can they afford to pay $20.70 per half year without neglecting other aspects of the nation?
2) With order to be placed in the later half of 1904, does that mean the ships are to be laid down in 1905?

1) Does not matter See below.
2) Intent is for ships to be laid down in 1904H2

[Logi]

The contract is heavily based on the historical pre-Minas Geras contract by Brazil which had the same requirements and order size that Vickers won. The contract was canceled and replaced after the HMS Dreadnought was launch with the actual Minas Geras and Sao Paulo. As such Brazil should realistically be able to make this order although for the purposes of our sim it doesn't matter.

[Walter]

I am pretty sure that Brazil can afford to pay for those ships, but I was just curious if you had a revenue value set for it and whether it could afford to pay the $82.80 in 4 half years or if it would spread out over a slightly longer period.

Even though China would love to submit a wacky awesome design, it believes that the use of its major dock is more important for domestic use than it is for the construction of three foreign vessels and a design shorter than 120m is probably not going to be good enough (due to the high speed requirement and the fact that 6 large caliber guns are required).

[Walter]

While I was looking for a map that I could not find, I actually ran across some values that were given to Brazil on the Reboot talks board...

Population = 17.98
IC = 2

That gives a revenue of $5.80. Rough guess on my part with advancing it to H2/1904 while assuming fixed costs to be at about 25%, I would put Brazil's H2/1904 stats at population of 19.46, 8 ICs and a revenue of 17.95. Subtracting fixed costs, that would mean Brazil could spend $13.46 per HY on the battleships (and that revenue is most likely not going to change as long as they have to pay for those battleships). So Brazil would require 7 HYs to complete payment of the three battleships.

... so based on that, that could also be used as a sales pitch by the nation trying to sell the design: "No need to struggle with the payments, you can do it in 5 years!" which would give Brazil a little bit of breathing space and allow it to spend some of its HY revenue on trying to continue to building ICs.

... hmmm... maybe I should invest some of China's money into Brazil... ;D

[Logi]

The Brazilian figures model their normal state, not their revenue under their historical coffee and rubber boom. Also historically, once the boom collapsed they found it difficult to pay for additional ships.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Brazilian figures model their normal state, not their revenue under their historical coffee and rubber boom. Also historically, once the boom collapsed they found it difficult to pay for additional ships.

I'll sim something, but it may just be for fun as the Ottomans won't have BP to spare in that timeframe.

[Alikchi]

I'll also be posting something, but I'd like to get at least a few sim reports done so I can know whether it's possible to actually build.

[Tanthalas]

the Netherlands bid was more of a blue sky proposal, but actualy came out fairly well...

[Darman]

Out of curiosity, what would be Brazil's largest drydock?

[Kaiser Kirk]

Out of curiosity, what would be Brazil's largest drydock?

Don't have that answer, but in 1888 ONI reported...
Rio de Janerio had 4 dry docks, 2 civilian, 2 govt.  2x 488' x 70' x 25' private and  420x60, 240x35 Govt.  She also had 22,000 tons of coal present on average with a 3 mile lighter run for rapid coaling :),
And that was it for the nation of Brazil. Next dry docks in Montevideo or Georgetown.

While Minas Geraes was at 530' , "these ships proved rather ambitious for the limited dockyard resources of Brazil"...so I expect they had to expand some docks to fit her. Though the 1917 refits were carried out in the USA.

Another question would be...any depth restrictions? Minas Geraes had a draft of 7.6m, and the deepest later design was 8.8m.  Both Dutch designs are between those, but the Vickers is deeper.