Tans Unsane Designs

[Jefgte]

I note too that it is not possible to have 21kts with 20 000 shp & turbines for a small dreadnought.

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

oh for sure, but you can do 23+ on VTEs... well if you are willing to give up a little protection you can anyway =P

I note too that it is not possible to have 21kts with 20 000 shp & turbines for a small dreadnought.

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

so something like this what you are talking about Jef? Not a bad ship all around, but I had to make several sacrifices I would rather not have made.  it is an interesting if not altogether time proof design.

Nike, Unified Netherlands Battleship laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   10,500 t light; 11,054 t standard; 11,752 t normal; 12,311 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (484.00 ft / 484.00 ft) x 73.00 ft x (23.42 / 24.25 ft)
   (147.52 m / 147.52 m) x 22.25 m  x (7.14 / 7.39 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 671.17lbs / 304.44kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 5,969 lbs / 2,708 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   314.60 ft / 95.89 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   169.38 ft / 51.63 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   314.60 ft / 95.89 m   8.50 ft / 2.59 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,257 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   563 - 733

Cost:
   £1.131 million / $4.525 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,078 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 1,078 tons, 9.2 %
   Armour: 3,692 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 1,948 tons, 16.6 %
      - Armament: 838 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 794 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 111 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,650 tons, 14.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,039 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,252 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 0.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 42 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,596 lbs / 6,167 Kg = 20.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.497 / 0.503
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.81 ft / 4.51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,483 Square feet or 2,182 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

Interresting choices

8" for the belt & 2" for the deck are short.
4000nm for the range is short too.

To see what is possible, remove 1T2x280 & increase armor...

My project République & Démocratie are 17000t-3T2x12"-21kts & 27000shp

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6860.15.html

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

I actually played around with an AQY on the same tonnage.  A much better ship I agree even if it was a bit short on firepower, I considered building it until I decided that by the time it came out there would be real BBs making 21 knots not far off, so if I was going to go for fast I had to push to 23+ knots and that well basically requires VTEs at this point.