Dutch Destroyers

[Korpen]

Well i am planning to lay down a new class of torpedoboat destroyers to replace my old c-class ships.
At the moment is am a bit uncertain witch of the two versions i should go for. Version 1 is slightly slower (therefore a better sea boat) but carries a heavier gun armament consisting of three 12cm guns.
Version 2 is slightly faster and armed with three of the powerful Dutch 10cm guns instead. Both designs have 10t assigned to radio equipment.

The 12cm guns has a slightly lower rate of fire of between 6 and 10 RPM, while 10cm guns can be expected to fire at between 10 and 15 RPM.
The ammunition for the lighter gun is a bit easier to handle, but the heavier gun can be expected to cripple a enemy torpedo boat with a single hit.
At he moment i think i lean towards the 12cm version, but i am interested in what other thinks.

Version 1:
F-Class, Nederländerna Torpedobootjager laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 776 t standard; 884 t normal; 971 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   262,47 ft / 262,47 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   80,00 m / 80,00 m x 8,00 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      3 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 159 lbs / 72 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14 000 shp / 10 444 Kw = 27,36 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 195 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0,112 million / $0,447 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 2,2 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0,4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 493 tons, 55,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 218 tons, 24,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 134 tons, 15,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     207 lbs / 94 Kg = 3,9 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,60
   Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 9,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,456
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,67 ft / 5,08 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (8,20 ft / 2,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Stern:      8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 198,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 417 Square feet or 410 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 36 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,88
      - Overall: 0,57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Korpen]

Version 2
F-Class, Nederländerna Torpedobootjager laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 773 t standard; 881 t normal; 968 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   262,47 ft / 262,47 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   80,00 m / 80,00 m x 8,00 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      3 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 37,48lbs / 17,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 112 lbs / 51 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14 800 shp / 11 041 Kw = 27,74 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 195 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0,107 million / $0,428 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1,3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0,3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 508 tons, 57,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 212 tons, 24,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 131 tons, 14,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     207 lbs / 94 Kg = 6,8 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,63
   Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 9,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,455
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,67 ft / 5,08 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (8,20 ft / 2,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Stern:      8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 411 Square feet or 410 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 35 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 117 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,84
      - Overall: 0,57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Borys]

Ahoj!
F.
These boats are for the North Sea, where the weather is bad. I'd expect the lighter guns to have double the ROF of the larger gun. And with the awful accuracy to be expected from small lively boats, it is the weight of metal in the air which will count.
I'd increase the number of rounds carried - to 150-200.

ADDED LATER:
I'm not so sure if that much ammunition is needed after all ... need data on RL ammunition supply.

Borys

[maddox]

What does the 120mm add compared to the 100mm guns?

These ships have and need torpedo's to go against the bigger ones. Like Protected cruisers. So the heavier punch of the 120mm won't add a lot in that respect, especialy not when going against a well designed ship. 
And to shoot their foreign breathren 100mm is big enough.

What I would do is something like this.

Van Galen, Netherlands Destroyer laid down 1906

Displacement:
   799 t light; 830 t standard; 903 t normal; 961 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   290,78 ft / 285,43 ft x 25,26 ft x 8,69 ft (normal load)
   88,63 m / 87,00 m x 7,70 m  x 2,65 m

Armament:
      3 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns in single mounts, 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns (3 mounts), 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 114 lbs / 52 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12.924 shp / 9.641 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 2.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 131 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   82 - 107

Cost:
   £0,107 million / $0,430 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 1,6%
   Machinery: 482 tons, 53,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 268 tons, 29,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 11,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 3,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     272 lbs / 124 Kg = 8,9 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39
   Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 10,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,504
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m (12,04 ft / 3,67 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      12,04 ft / 3,67 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,26 ft / 3,74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95,7%
   Waterplane Area: 4.822 Square feet or 448 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 128 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,57
      - Longitudinal: 2,17
      - Overall: 0,65
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The 35 tons misc weight is a marconi instalation and 2 reloads for each tube, + reloading crane.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Very nice ship Maddox.
The 2000 range is plenty, could be cut down to 1500. I do not "see" such a small ship carrying reloads, let alone a crane. The Japanese used dollies, I think.
As the torpedos are small, maybe carry 6 TT?
As the bow gun is on the raised Forecastle, it also counts as "elevated"
As you overshot the 750 ton limit by almost 50 tons, these savings would be appreciated :)

ADDED LATER:
I almost forgot - NOT ENOUGH DECKSPACE!
:)

Borys

[maddox]

I aimed for the 800 tons limit on destroyers according the rules.  ;)

With the Dutch having the best gun lay out for destroyers I see the room for another 100mm gun.
Removed 2 of 57mm anti TB guns and elevated the 2  8mm machine to clear deckspace.
Also, took 200 shells for the main guns compared to the 180 in the previous version.

Added 2 torpedo tubes and removed all the reloads and equipment I did see as possible.

Van Galen, Netherlands Destroyer laid down 1906

Displacement:
   746 t light; 779 t standard; 858 t normal; 922 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   290,78 ft / 285,43 ft x 25,26 ft x 8,20 ft (normal load)
   88,63 m / 87,00 m x 7,70 m  x 2,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns in single mounts, 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 133 lbs / 61 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12.558 shp / 9.368 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 1.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   79 - 103

Cost:
   £0,104 million / $0,417 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 17 tons, 1,9%
   Machinery: 458 tons, 53,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 267 tons, 31,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 112 tons, 13,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     272 lbs / 123 Kg = 8,9 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,43
   Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 9,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m (12,04 ft / 3,67 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      12,04 ft / 3,67 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,26 ft / 3,74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81,1%
   Waterplane Area: 4.840 Square feet or 450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 44%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 129 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,57
      - Longitudinal: 2,17
      - Overall: 0,65
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The 5 tons is for the short ranged marconi

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Where do you see space for another gun?
http://www.german-navy.de/pics/hochseeflotte/gtb1906.gif
Borys

[Korpen]

While the torpedo armament might be considered light, i consider one of the main purposes of my TBJ;s is to defend my well-armed but slow capital ships from enemy TBs. So therefore the powerful guns, and few torpedoes. The misc weight is still enough to allow a 10t radio set, and the increased seakeeping will be nice in the north sea (were most of these ships will serve).

And I thiknk MGs are more effective at that ranges were the 5cm gun might be usefull.

F-Class, Nederländerna Torpedobootjager laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 777 t standard; 886 t normal; 973 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   288,28 ft / 278,87 ft x 25,75 ft x 9,19 ft (normal load)
   87,87 m / 85,00 m x 7,85 m  x 2,80 m

Armament:
      3 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 37,48lbs / 17,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 113 lbs / 51 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 14 000 shp / 10 444 Kw = 27,60 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 196 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0,107 million / $0,427 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1,3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0,3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 505 tons, 57,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 216 tons, 24,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 136 tons, 15,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 1,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     215 lbs / 98 Kg = 7,0 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,63
   Metacentric height 1,5 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 8,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,67 ft / 5,08 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (8,20 ft / 2,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Stern:      8,20 ft / 2,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 195,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 659 Square feet or 433 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 37 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 112 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,60
      - Overall: 0,56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

While the torpedo armament might be considered light, i consider one of the main purposes of my TBJ;s is to defend my well-armed but slow capital ships from enemy TBs.

In that case build the ship for the job. What you need is this:
Dutch Destroyer Killer 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2 616 t light; 2 724 t standard; 3 300 t normal; 3 761 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   389,80 ft / 377,30 ft x 39,37 ft x 16,40 ft (normal load)
   118,81 m / 115,00 m x 12,00 m  x 5,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,70" / 119 mm guns (4x2 guns), 51,91lbs / 23,55kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 0,43" / 10,9 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 416 lbs / 189 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   4 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,57" / 40 mm   344,49 ft / 105,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 140% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         0,39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower: 0,98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22 015 shp / 16 423 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 037 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   217 - 283

Cost:
   £0,289 million / $1,157 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 52 tons, 1,6%
   Armour: 230 tons, 7,0%
      - Belts: 141 tons, 4,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 15 tons, 0,4%
      - Armour Deck: 70 tons, 2,1%
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0,1%
   Machinery: 1 101 tons, 33,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 184 tons, 35,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 684 tons, 20,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 716 lbs / 1 232 Kg = 52,3 x 4,7 " / 119 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 11,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   20,67 ft / 6,30 m (13,78 ft / 4,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Stern:      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,60 ft / 4,76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97,9%
   Waterplane Area: 9 670 Square feet or 898 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 314 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 2,48
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Korpen]

I aimed for the 800 tons limit on destroyers according the rules.  ;)

With the Dutch having the best gun lay out for destroyers I see the room for another 100mm gun.
Removed 2 of 57mm anti TB guns and elevated the 2  8mm machine to clear deckspace.
Also, took 200 shells for the main guns compared to the 180 in the previous version.

Added 2 torpedo tubes and removed all the reloads and equipment I did see as possible.

That ship is if possible even more crowded then mine.

As for the number of shells, in perfect weather and conditions 200 shells are enough for almost 15 minutes of constant firing, and i simply do not expect my TBs to survive that long in a environment that requires that kind of ammunition expenditure.  ;D

[maddox]

Just 1 question, who do you see as your North sea enemy, and what is the mainstay of his/her/their  fleet(s).

No public answer needed.

[Korpen]

In that case build the ship for the job. What you need is this:
Dutch Destroyer Killer 1906 (Engine 1909)

When i can build ships with 1909 turbines, i will consider it!  ;)
But as for the moment my engines weights about 600 tons more for that power output :(

[Korpen]

Just 1 question, who do you see as your North sea enemy, and what is the mainstay of his/her/their  fleet(s).

No public answer needed.

That is not as much about who the enemy is, as it is about the fact that the c-class TBs that are to replace are stationed in my European water, and that means the north sea.

[Borys]

Extripator, Dutch Destroyer Slaughterer
Laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3 342 t light; 3 470 t standard; 4 327 t normal; 5 013 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   412,70 ft / 400,00 ft x 42,00 ft x 15,00 ft (normal load)
   125,79 m / 121,92 m x 12,80 m  x 4,57 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,70" / 119 mm guns in single mounts, 51,91lbs / 23,55kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      8 - 0,43" / 10,9 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 416 lbs / 189 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 135% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Conning tower: 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19 457 shp / 14 515 Kw = 24,00 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 543 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   266 - 346

Cost:
   £0,388 million / $1,550 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 52 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 252 tons, 5,8%
      - Belts: 224 tons, 5,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 22 tons, 0,5%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0,1%
   Machinery: 1 621 tons, 37,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 366 tons, 31,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 985 tons, 22,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 129 lbs / 1 419 Kg = 60,3 x 4,7 " / 119 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,40
   Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 11,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,77

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,601
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Forecastle (40%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m (14,00 ft / 4,27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Stern:      14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,96 ft / 5,17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108,9%
   Waterplane Area: 12 299 Square feet or 1 143 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 305 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,00
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Korpen]

Extripator, Dutch Destroyer Slaughterer
Laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

If building a ship like that i think i would go for sometinh slightly larger.

Celt, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3 910 t light; 4 088 t standard; 5 004 t normal; 5 737 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   435,69 ft / 426,51 ft x 39,37 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
   132,80 m / 130,00 m x 12,00 m  x 6,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 714 lbs / 324 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   367,45 ft / 112,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 133 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm         -         0,98" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm         -         0,98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 0,98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19 983 shp / 14 907 Kw = 24,06 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 649 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   296 - 386

Cost:
   £0,443 million / $1,771 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 89 tons, 1,8 %
   Armour: 763 tons, 15,2 %
      - Belts: 283 tons, 5,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 70 tons, 1,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 403 tons, 8,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0,1 %
   Machinery: 1 649 tons, 32,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 389 tons, 27,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 094 tons, 21,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 279 lbs / 1 487 Kg = 62,2 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 11,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Mid (30 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,43 ft / 3,79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 078 Square feet or 1 029 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 335 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Deacent armour, eight gun broadside, and still quite slow :/