Ottoman dreadnought armwaving

[The Rock Doctor]

So the existing Ottoman battleship is basically an improved historical Brandenburg, or a stretched Braunschweig class ship.  The type has 6x11", a 6" secondary, and a top speed of just over 18 knots.

Come 1904 (at some point), the Ottomans will pick up the basic turbine machinery and the all-big-gun capital ship architecture.  They've already got the improved armor.

My thinking at the moment is that the Ottomans aren't going to go hog-wild with their next battleship class.  They don't need to do the jump from mixed main battery to all-big-gun.  The class won't really be a great leap as Dreadnought was, but more of an incremental improvement.  They may go with all-turbine, or they might do a mixed propulsion set-up.  So what about the main battery?

The weapon itself will almost certainly be a 28cm/45 twin, since I have nothing larger or more advanced.  Layout options are:

-APQY:  Visually, the preceding class with a new section plopped about two-thirds of the way aft.  2 guns fore/aft, 8 gun broadside.  Probably the smallest and cheapest design.

-APQXY:  Dreadnought pattern.  The ship will need to be wider, but the primary visual effect is parking new turrets adjacent to the bridge.  6 guns fore/aft, 8 gun broadside. 

-APQY en-echelon:  So Von Der Tann layout, or its mirror image.  This implies a wider ship with more re-working of the amidships area.  6 guns fore/aft, 8 gun broadside but with cross-deck issues.

-"Pillbox":  so Posen-style, probably very similar in actual design.  Also a heavier ship with a reworked amidships.  6 guns fore/aft, eight guns amidships, with theoretical redundancy on the dis-engaged side (although this only becomes useful if the ship reverses course).  Likely the heaviest and most expensive ship.

Considerations: 

-Still need a good and well-placed secondary given that torpedo-craft are a reasonable threat

-The Ottoman budget isn't huge.  This cuts two ways:  The Ottomans can't afford to build huge ships, but they also can't afford to waste money on half-assed ships.

-The Ottoman ordinance industry may find 10 or 12 guns per ship harder to deal with than 8.

-Similarly, the Ottoman shipbuilding industry may find 4 turbines more challenging to produce than 2 turbines and good ol' VTE.

-The major operating areas are the Med and Black Sea, and MAYBE the Red Sea.  I don't expect a lot of fighting within the Dardanelles or more open oceans.

So where would you give with a design, given the above?

[eltf177]

Would the possibility of buying old PDN's and refurbishing them be worth considering?

[The Rock Doctor]

Would the possibility of buying old PDN's and refurbishing them be worth considering?

It's a play-style i tend to avoid, particularly "now" when dreadnoughts are making the newest pre-dreads obsolete.  Purchasing and upgrading a PDN's protection, machinery and armament would likely cost three-quarters of a new PDN - from my perspective, not a good value.

[Jefgte]

IMO, built super Brandeburg is an economical BP option.

SS to test

=> 3T2x12"/21kts - B&T:270

=> 4T2x12"/21kts - B&T:270

Jef  ;)

[eltf177]

Would the possibility of buying old PDN's and refurbishing them be worth considering?

It's a play-style i tend to avoid, particularly "now" when dreadnoughts are making the newest pre-dreads obsolete.  Purchasing and upgrading a PDN's protection, machinery and armament would likely cost three-quarters of a new PDN - from my perspective, not a good value.

Understand...

[The Rock Doctor]

Would the possibility of buying old PDN's and refurbishing them be worth considering?

It's a play-style i tend to avoid, particularly "now" when dreadnoughts are making the newest pre-dreads obsolete.  Purchasing and upgrading a PDN's protection, machinery and armament would likely cost three-quarters of a new PDN - from my perspective, not a good value.

Understand...

What would be your likes and dislikes from amongst the "must build new ships" options?

[eltf177]

I think the APQY design is the best choice, but you won't have either the numbers or powerful enough ships to do much. This is why I was thinking the PDN approach, you can hopefully afford to buy enough of them and give them enough of a refurbishment to be of some use. They'll be slow and more of a coast-defense fleet but that shouldn't scare your neighbors (although it might give them other ideas... ::)).

I do like Jefgte's idea of a Super Brandeberg - maybe as a new build with turbines and better armor?

[The Rock Doctor]

This is not quite a stretched version of the last ship, but it's close.  The main belt isn't 4.2 m the whole way, but more like 3.6 metres the whole way and then a full deck higher on the forward 25% (with the raised forecastle).

The 15cm are notionally concentrated at the end of the forecastle and then in a block forward of Y turret.  I think it would logically lead to turreted secondaries down the road, ala historical Italian practice.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905

Displacement:
   14,641 t light; 15,366 t standard; 16,225 t normal; 16,912 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 75.46 ft x (25.92 / 26.81 ft)
   (150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 23.00 m  x (7.90 / 8.17 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 20.97lbs / 9.51kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,317 lbs / 3,319 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   344.49 ft / 105.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 19.81 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,546 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   718 - 934

Cost:
   £1.402 million / $5.606 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,271 tons, 7.8 %
      - Guns: 1,271 tons, 7.8 %
   Armour: 6,086 tons, 37.5 %
      - Belts: 3,338 tons, 20.6 %
      - Armament: 1,270 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,151 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Towers: 326 tons, 2.0 %
   Machinery: 2,095 tons, 12.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,697 tons, 28.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,584 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 492 tons, 3.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 492 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,618 lbs / 9,352 Kg = 30.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.59

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.590 / 0.594
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.80 ft / 5.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,907 Square feet or 2,500 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[eltf177]

Three nitpicks:

1) No TDS; could be a problem.
2) VTE's and Turbines?
3) She's on the slow side...

[The Rock Doctor]

Thanks. I believe #1 and #3 are artifacts of our tech rules - the TDS isn't technically possible yet, and the speed is constrained by a horsepower limit on machinery of this vintage.

As to #2, this is me thinking of conservative design parameters - "We'll try a couple of these new-fangled turbines but keep good ol' VTEs in case they aren't as good as advertised".  I think it mirrors historical German attitudes around their early dreadnoughts.

All-turbine frees up 0.05 HS, which would let me shave off maybe 300 t from displacement.

[The Rock Doctor]

With a VdT layout, the beam is wider and the hull less deep.  Marginal changes to performance or cost, really.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905

Displacement:
   14,757 t light; 15,485 t standard; 16,345 t normal; 17,033 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (459.32 ft / 459.32 ft) x 87.27 ft x (24.61 / 25.44 ft)
   (140.00 m / 140.00 m) x 26.60 m  x (7.50 / 7.76 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 20.97lbs / 9.51kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,317 lbs / 3,319 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 19.55 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,549 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   722 - 939

Cost:
   £1.406 million / $5.622 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,271 tons, 7.8 %
      - Guns: 1,271 tons, 7.8 %
   Armour: 6,001 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 3,158 tons, 19.3 %
      - Armament: 1,283 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,231 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 328 tons, 2.0 %
   Machinery: 2,095 tons, 12.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,921 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,588 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 469 tons, 2.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 469 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,005 lbs / 10,435 Kg = 34.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.80 ft / 5.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,773 Square feet or 2,673 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[The Rock Doctor]

Dreadnought layout's a little heavier and a little slower.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905

Displacement:
   15,627 t light; 16,434 t standard; 17,327 t normal; 18,042 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (459.32 ft / 459.32 ft) x 88.25 ft x (24.93 / 25.78 ft)
   (140.00 m / 140.00 m) x 26.90 m  x (7.60 / 7.86 m)

Armament:
      10 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 20.97lbs / 9.51kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8,668 lbs / 3,932 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 19.33 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,609 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   754 - 981

Cost:
   £1.562 million / $6.249 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,517 tons, 8.8 %
      - Guns: 1,517 tons, 8.8 %
   Armour: 6,314 tons, 36.4 %
      - Belts: 3,169 tons, 18.3 %
      - Armament: 1,536 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,269 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 341 tons, 2.0 %
   Machinery: 2,095 tons, 12.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,171 tons, 29.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,701 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 529 tons, 3.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 529 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,059 lbs / 10,459 Kg = 34.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.80 ft / 5.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,648 Square feet or 2,754 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 717 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

This is a six-shooter, kind of per Jef's suggestion.  I can't pick up 21 knots, and don't think an all-turbine design would either.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,836 t light; 13,461 t standard; 14,245 t normal; 14,872 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (459.32 ft / 459.32 ft) x 75.46 ft x (25.92 / 26.82 ft)
   (140.00 m / 140.00 m) x 23.00 m  x (7.90 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm 45.0 cal guns - 675.51lbs / 306.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 20.97lbs / 9.51kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 15,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,966 lbs / 2,706 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   147.61 ft / 44.99 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      10.6" / 270 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.63" / 270 mm, Aft 10.63" / 270 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 ihp / 14,920 Kw = 20.15 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,411 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   651 - 847

Cost:
   £1.212 million / $4.849 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,025 tons, 7.2 %
      - Guns: 1,025 tons, 7.2 %
   Armour: 5,094 tons, 35.8 %
      - Belts: 2,866 tons, 20.1 %
      - Armament: 919 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,040 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 269 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 2,095 tons, 14.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,130 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,409 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 490 tons, 3.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 490 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,116 lbs / 8,217 Kg = 27.0 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.555 / 0.560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.09 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m,  22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.80 ft / 5.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,302 Square feet or 2,258 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.01
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

Why not go with something like Espania with 11" guns?

[The Rock Doctor]

...er, why?  I've always thought of the Espanas as the little outcasts the other dreadnoughts don't like to talk about.