Looking for a CL Design

[miketr]

4,000 light tons displacement
Combination of 105 and or 150mm guns for a total of at least 10 single mount and hoist (1900 tech)
Speed 21 knots VTE 1902 laydown date and at least 4,000 nm at 10 knots
50mm deck armor

Michael

[Tanthalas]

Just a direct copy of the ones I am curently building, but it would make a good fit for what you are asking for.  If you decide you like it I can rework it to better fit your specs, since as is the guns are slightly off.

City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,167 t standard; 4,865 t normal; 5,423 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (22.00 / 23.81 ft)
   (116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m  x (6.71 / 7.26 m)

Armament:
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 840 lbs / 381 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.50" / 38 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,139 ihp / 9,055 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,256 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   290 - 378

Cost:
   £0.474 million / $1.895 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 208 tons, 4.3 %
      - Guns: 208 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 553 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 525 tons, 10.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,876 tons, 38.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,310 tons, 26.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 865 tons, 17.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 53 tons, 1.1 %
      - Hull below water: 16 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 27 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,783 lbs / 1,263 Kg = 25.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.81

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.476
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   49.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.45 ft / 4.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 139.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,796 Square feet or 1,003 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 357 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

53 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water:16 tons
2 tons Bow: 2 18" torpedo tubes
2 tons Stern: 2 18" torpedo tubes
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 10 tons
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 27 tons
27 tons: Reserve

[Logi]

Here's my proposal. The large amount of misc weight is just copied from your cruisers in your encyclopedia. Lowering that weight would buy higher than 1.50 seakeeping and/or heavier armor.

KJ4000, Netherlands Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,182 t standard; 4,698 t normal; 5,111 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.70 ft / 393.70 ft) x 42.65 ft x (19.69 / 20.98 ft)
   (120.00 m / 120.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (6.00 / 6.39 m)

Armament:
      5 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     5 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 778 lbs / 353 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      0.59" / 15 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm  Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,806 ihp / 8,808 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 928 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   283 - 368

Cost:
   £0.457 million / $1.829 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 189 tons, 4.0 %
      - Guns: 189 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 664 tons, 14.1 %
      - Armament: 37 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 615 tons, 13.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,818 tons, 38.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,154 tons, 24.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 698 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 176 tons, 3.7 %
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 76 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,223 lbs / 1,008 Kg = 21.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.497 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 140.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,162 Square feet or 1,037 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 343 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

2x2 450mm Torpedo Tubes

[miketr]

Thanks for the responses.  This is my attempt.  I went for lighter main weapons figuring Germany is still going for storm of shells bit.  A later version would switch to eight 150mm with one 150mm going in place two 105mm and a reduction in misc weight.

CL-1902, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,001 t light; 4,149 t standard; 4,726 t normal; 5,188 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.70 ft / 393.70 ft) x 42.65 ft x (19.69 / 21.13 ft)
   (120.00 m / 120.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (6.00 / 6.44 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.62lbs / 16.16kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 645 lbs / 292 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,500 ihp / 9,325 Kw = 21.29 kts
   Range 6,471nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,039 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   284 - 370

Cost:
   £0.474 million / $1.894 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 175 tons, 3.7 %
      - Guns: 175 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 521 tons, 11.0 %
      - Armament: 86 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 411 tons, 8.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,943 tons, 41.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,181 tons, 25.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 726 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 181 tons, 3.8 %
      - Hull above water: 100 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 81 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,124 lbs / 963 Kg = 20.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.512
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.25 ft / 3.43 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 79.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,192 Square feet or 1,040 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

Heya Mike, reworked mine with German guns.  Still works, and gains a few feet of freeboard over yours (personaly I would be concernd about a ship with only 10' aft)

CL-1902, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,151 t standard; 4,847 t normal; 5,404 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (22.00 / 23.81 ft)
   (116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m  x (6.71 / 7.26 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.62lbs / 16.16kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 645 lbs / 292 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.50" / 38 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,107 ihp / 9,032 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,253 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   289 - 377

Cost:
   £0.443 million / $1.772 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 133 tons, 2.8 %
      - Guns: 133 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 551 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armament: 17 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 525 tons, 10.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,873 tons, 38.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,289 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 847 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 153 tons, 3.2 %
      - Hull below water: 16 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 127 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,006 lbs / 1,363 Kg = 29.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.85

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   49.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.45 ft / 4.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 134.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,781 Square feet or 1,002 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 342 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.11
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

153 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water:16 tons
2 tons Bow: 2 18" torpedo tubes
2 tons Stern: 2 18" torpedo tubes
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 10 tons
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 27 tons
127 tons: Reserve

[Walter]

I'm not sure but to me 22 feet seems very deep for a cruiser of this size. It's a kind of cheating as increasing the draught gives you the biggest hull strength increase you can get from SS. But that is how I look at it. :)

Also find your gun layout math interesting, Tan. The ships has two 150mm guns, four of them are on the centerline with two raised mounts and two are on the sides. I know 2x2=5 but 4+2=2 is new to me. ;D


What about the 37mm gun? I get the impression that historical around this time, it was a 55 caliber weapon, it is listed as being a 40 caliber weapon in the "Marine Waffe" thread, it is simmed as being a 35 caliber weapon on other German ships in the encyclopedia and here in this thread it is 45 caliber...

... so for now I just used 45 caliber...

Messing around a bit with some numbers...



Atilla, Hun Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,153 t standard; 4,571 t normal; 4,906 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (370.73 ft / 367.45 ft) x 44.29 ft x (18.04 / 19.08 ft)
   (113.00 m / 112.00 m) x 13.50 m  x (5.50 / 5.82 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.62lbs / 16.16kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      6 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 580 lbs / 263 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm  Quarter deck: 0.79" / 20 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 2.36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,144 ihp / 9,060 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 753 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   277 - 361

Cost:
   £0.456 million / $1.825 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 157 tons, 3.4%
      - Guns: 157 tons, 3.4%
   Armour: 614 tons, 13.4%
      - Armament: 91 tons, 2.0%
      - Armour Deck: 485 tons, 10.6%
      - Conning Towers: 37 tons, 0.8%
   Machinery: 1,865 tons, 40.8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,284 tons, 28.1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 571 tons, 12.5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 1.8%
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,717 lbs / 1,232 Kg = 26.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.545 / 0.553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00%,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.70 ft / 5.09 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.5%
   Waterplane Area: 11,303 Square feet or 1,050 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 332 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

2 underwater 450mm tubes

[Tanthalas]

Heh just forgot to change the guns after I deleated some of the 6" ones from the original :P.

as to the depth, well IDK it can honestly go either way.  The brits had ALOT of second class cruisers in the period from 20.5-22' admitedly im at the upper end of that but it is still within "normal" for the period (even if there were some ships drawing as little as 13.5').

*Edit to add the reworked ship*

Course it works just fine like this drawing only 19' as well just the BC is a bit higher than I personaly prefer

CL-1902, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,151 t standard; 4,834 t normal; 5,381 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (19.00 / 20.66 ft)
   (116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m  x (5.79 / 6.30 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.63lbs / 16.16kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.57lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 645 lbs / 292 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,278 ihp / 9,159 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,230 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   289 - 376

Cost:
   £0.447 million / $1.786 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 133 tons, 2.8 %
      - Guns: 133 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 575 tons, 11.9 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 551 tons, 11.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,898 tons, 39.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,221 tons, 25.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 834 tons, 17.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 173 tons, 3.6 %
      - Hull below water: 16 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 147 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,066 lbs / 1,391 Kg = 29.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.531 / 0.544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   49.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.45 ft / 4.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,493 Square feet or 1,068 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 326 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

173 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water:16 tons
2 tons Bow: 2 18" torpedo tubes
2 tons Stern: 2 18" torpedo tubes
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 10 tons
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 27 tons
147 tons: Reserve

[Walter]

The brits had ALOT of second class cruisers in the period from 20.5-22'

Well, did a quick look myself and saw a few of them (not a lot), but they were somewhere around the 6000 ton mark...

Course it works just fine like this drawing only 19' as well just the BC is a bit higher than I personaly prefer

Found the BC on your original design to be more destroyer-like than cruiser-like... but that is probably just me. :)




Messing around abit more with numbers sticking a bit more to the range minimum and add a few more guns in order to get something a bit more odd...



Atilla II, Hun Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,190 t standard; 4,612 t normal; 4,949 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (364.17 ft / 360.89 ft) x 42.65 ft x (19.69 / 20.80 ft)
   (111.00 m / 110.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (6.00 / 6.34 m)

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5.91" / 150 mm 45.0 cal guns - 103.86lbs / 47.11kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      10 - 4.13" / 105 mm 45.0 cal guns - 35.62lbs / 16.16kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      6 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,004 lbs / 456 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 2.36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,223 ihp / 9,118 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 759 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   279 - 363

Cost:
   £0.478 million / $1.912 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 231 tons, 5.0%
      - Guns: 231 tons, 5.0%
   Armour: 529 tons, 11.5%
      - Armament: 103 tons, 2.2%
      - Armour Deck: 388 tons, 8.4%
      - Conning Towers: 38 tons, 0.8%
   Machinery: 1,876 tons, 40.7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,289 tons, 27.9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 612 tons, 13.3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 1.6%
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 55 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,436 lbs / 1,105 Kg = 23.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.533 / 0.541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.46 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00%,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   20.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00%,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.70 ft / 5.09 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147.9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.4%
   Waterplane Area: 10,570 Square feet or 982 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 348 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.90
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

oh you could quite possibly be right aobut the BC, I tend to try to keep them agressivly low (seriously my "bbs" have a cruiser bc... Course they also have cruiser speed so go figure)

[Kaiser Kirk]

I believe that in the past I've indicated BC concerns.
Low BC and deep depths are combinations which produce ships with higher speeds and minimize deck armor area.
I prefer to keep things period appropriate.
We read about things like Renown & Repulse...and their hulls being strained by firing...and immediately being put into refit.
So while pushing the historical boundaries should be allowed - players should be able to experiment, there were apparently
reasons for the hull parameters seen historically. We do see changes later as metallurgy advanced, particularly in american vessels, with that basically
trick bow - long skinny thing, and the lavish use of high strength STS steel for hull members. 

[Tanthalas]

there used to be a wrath of god (or more corectly wrath of the GMs) rule.  Basicly you could build whatever you wanted to within the rules, but ships that pushed to hard (things like the Refit and Repair) were likley to see Mod imposed penalties.  I Never personaly had an issue, but yeah it was there (and face it building your awsome ship only to have it suffer through issue after issue is actualy quasi realistic).

[Kaiser Kirk]

I agree. Folks should be able to explore. Our function in review is to voice concerns. The mod's role is to decide if those concerns happen to bear fruit :)
I recall a really nifty early BB design with a very short belt, giant bulges and narrow functional beam. In reality, it had massive flaws, but firepower/weight it was GREAT...and perhaps if I was running a nation concerned about show, that would be ok. I mean how often does the press & politicians focus on simple stats like # of barrels rather than arrangement ?

[The Rock Doctor]

So long as they can call it a battleship, everything else is secondary.