The Conference of Constantinople, July 1900

[miketr]

OOC lets not get bogged down over which prince ends up on the throne of which GM controlled nation.

[Kaiser Kirk]

OOC lets not get bogged down over which prince ends up on the throne of which GM controlled nation.

OOC:
The Russians asked, I answered.

I forgot to note that if Semi-Salic is adopted for a new Bohemia, then Gisela would be Franz Joseph's legitimate heir, as Rudolf - the only son- died.  So for Monarchists, she's an excellent choice while accomplishing the goals of the various parties- such as I understand them.

I forgot Franz Ferdinand had abdicated, thought that was just Hungary. Has Otto been invested, as he's seriously ill right now?  As for Charles, I was specifying Hapsburgs of Majority- i.e. needing no regent.  From Franz Joseph's titles, Bohemia is already a Kingdom, not a Duchy, while Moravia is a Margravite, which is a couple rungs below Duchy and so would be secondary with a "Kingdom of Bohemia".

Kinda weird that my running Bavaria in N3 meant I'm already familiar with many of the folks in question in N6 :)

[miketr]

OOC As a player lets just not get diverted by trivia issues and I view which Hapsburg of which line or the new title of the new Czech state as firmly falling into that area.  Kaiser Kirk I am not pointing at you in particular on my concern.

As Germany the German government really isn't going to get bent over which prince gets on which throne.  The deal breaker issues, for Germany, are the ethnic Germans and enforced neutrality of the new Czech state. 

I understand if other nations / players have other key issues but lack of response makes it hard to judge what people are going for and where to bargain.

Michael

[Kaiser Kirk]

OOC : I've tried to offer concrete ideas that folks can either endorse or counter, but not getting much in return.
I kinda think that if no one actually comments or offers something in the next several days, perhaps we should break it down into an item by item and call for a vote on it.
Set like a 3 day response timer and call it done.
Then get on with the Sim

[miketr]

OOC Just to be very clear I am not trying to pound on you after all you HAVE been one of the more active posters in this thread. 

Also I suspect I understand why Guinness / Russia asked his question.  After all if a Hapsburg takes the throne of Czechoslovakia then a few years in dies and the throne reverts to say... the Hapsburg King of Austria within the German Empire that would be a disaster from the point of view of Russia.  But that is a guess on my part as Guinness wasn't specific on why he asked the question.

Kaiser your suggestion for a vote in a few days I think has a GREAT deal of merit.  This plot has taken too long and tied up the game too much.

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

OOC:  I don't think the Ottomans really have anything to say just now.  I don't expect they care hugely about what happens to these left-over bits so long as there isn't a war over it.

[Darman]

Britain would propose an article stating that no one person or persons (for example, the marriage of the Crown Prince and Princess of two different nations) can hold the Crown of more than one of these nations that we are proposing to instate. 

OOC: this is an independent proposal and does not endorse any candidate for any particular throne at this time. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

Also I suspect I understand why Guinness / Russia asked his question.  After all if a Hapsburg takes the throne of Czechoslovakia then a few years in dies and the throne reverts to say... the Hapsburg King of Austria within the German Empire that would be a disaster from the point of view of Russia. 

One of the reasons Gisela makes a nice choice is under Semi-Salic progression, she would be senior to Franz Ferdinand and his brothers, and she already has multiple adult children, so no regents.
Meanwhile, since the Austrian throne would continue to be be Salic (Male only) she and all her children are excluded from the Austrian line.
I figured that was a good way to prevent reversion.

I did consider Darman's suggestion, and that would be fine as well.

[Guinness]

Kapnist: "Gentleman, while I can see the logic in your proposals of succession, my government would be concerned that the heads of these new states would all have such close ties to the growing German empire. I suspect others in attendance might have similar concerns, no?"

[miketr]

The German foreign minister is about to stand in response when the chancellor taps him on the forearm.  A few words are whispered* between the two men and then Chancellor Von Der Goltz stands,"The German Government has suggested perpetual neutrality for the new Czech state; this can be extended to a possible Slovak state or to a Czechoslovak state.  So no matter how close the ties of blood by these new states rulers might be with elements of the German Empire in diplomatic terms the new states are limited in their relations to Germany... or any other state.  The actions of the Hungarian Government speaks for itself with respect to its attitudes towards Austria and by extension the German Empire.  In what way would not neutrality address these concerns of the Russian Government?"

*Those nearby might have overheard the two men whispering over the amount of German Nobility in the background of the Tsar and his wife. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

Kapnist: "Gentleman, while I can see the logic in your proposals of succession, my government would be concerned that the heads of these new states would all have such close ties to the growing German empire. I suspect others in attendance might have similar concerns, no?"

Undersecretary : My dear sir, the Austrio-Hungarian Empire has been allied with the German Empire for nearly 20 years, pledged to a military alliance. Less than a century ago, much of Germany and the Austrian Empire were united in the Holy Roman Empire. For these lands to be close to the German Empire is a simple continuation of the current state of affairs.

Regardless of if nuetrality is enforced on them as our German compratriots insist, or if they are simply bound by blood and culture as we propose, the loss of the Kingdom of Hungary, currently occupied by your troops, certainly tilts the balance of power in favor of the invading Russian Empire.

[snip]

While this is a great exersize in roleplay, wrapping it up might be nice so we can continue.

[miketr]

OK guys lets cut to the chase.

Deal Breakers for Germany are the Ethnic Germans in Czech lands be annex to Germany, ethnic Germans along Hungarian Border be annexed to Germany and Czech Neutrality.

What do other people view as absolute deal breakers for them?

Michael

[Guinness]

All OOC:

Russia would rather not worry about the German army coming to visit via Hungary, that's pretty much it's bottom line. It's preferred method for preventing that is a neutral but not defenseless Hungary and friends not aligned to the German sphere of influence. How we get there, I'm not sure I care.

I'd like to wrap this as I've just learned I need to be in (of all places) Paris and Berlin starting this weekend, and I'll probably be unavailable. Life is hard, I know.

[miketr]

The Hungarian leadership has to be angry at the way things have played out for it in game.  With Transylvania, and the old military border with Ottoman Empire and Carpathian foothills all ripped off.  Magyar nationalist dreamed of Hungary as an independent great power.  Whoever can help them recover some or all of these lost lands would be warmly received as a friend in Budapest. 

If Russia is willing to ally with Hungary vs say Ottomans and or Romania then no need to worry about Germany using Hungary as a jumping off point.  If not then demanding Hungary be neutral also appears to be the logical move.

Outside of that I have no suggestions on this point of concern.

Michael