The Conference of Constantinople, July 1900

[Jefgte]

OOC Jef my two bits and what I expected to happen is that France would be jumping up and down screaming... NO NO NO!!!  Even if Germany is losing an ally its set to absorb over half of said ally making Germany bigger and stronger.  Your lack of action has been the biggest surprise to me on this little plot.

Veiw from France, AH war was in central Europe.
France did'nt have any borders with AH.
France relation with Germany are cold.
In our sim, France is 0.5 Germany... What could I do ?
=> Shut up

[miketr]

OOC Jef my two bits and what I expected to happen is that France would be jumping up and down screaming... NO NO NO!!!  Even if Germany is losing an ally its set to absorb over half of said ally making Germany bigger and stronger.  Your lack of action has been the biggest surprise to me on this little plot.

Veiw from France, AH war was in central Europe.
France did'nt have any borders with AH.
France relation with Germany are cold.
In our sim, France is 0.5 Germany... What could I do ?
=> Shut up

By yourself and limited to force?  I agree not much but what was to prevent you from trying to build a consensus among the other European powers to limit German gains as much as possible.  If say you had the UK and the Netherlands backing of X plan you put forward I would almost have to back down at that point. 

For example Italy wasnt in favor of the Czechs being gobbled by the blob soon to be known as Greater Germany at the start but they have backed off a bit.  Mike as the player assumes this move is a combo of lack of support from anyone else but Russia and a desire to not upset their ally. If you had stepped forward to support the Italian move I would be limited in how much I push back out of worry of driving the Italians into the arms of France. 

Germany or soon to be Greater Germany can push around any ONE nation in Europe but it cant stand against all or even a majority of other European powers that are set on standing in its way.

OOC:  I'm around.  The Ottomans are in a bit of a quandry - generally pleased at the idea of their friend Germany getting stronger, but also somewhat miffed and alarmed at the German representative's implication that the Sultan is not fit to rule Christians.  So at the moment, they're just trying to keep a poker face and be good hosts.

That was Count Alois Lexa von Aehrenthal, the Austrains and in there place what do you expect them to think.  The German chancellor just didnt contradict the Austrian.

[Darman]

That was Count Alois Lexa von Aehrenthal, the Austrains and in there place what do you expect them to think.  The German chancellor just didnt contradict the Austrian.

....i.e. he agrees with him, but is being diplomatic about it ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

That was Count Alois Lexa von Aehrenthal, the Austrains and in there place what do you expect them to think.  The German chancellor just didnt contradict the Austrian.

Oh, okay, got my nationalities mixed up. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

Since we're OOC'ing a bit here...

When setting up the Italians, I did some brief looking at their period history. Things like the revolutionary views of Garibaldi and his legacy, and the reunification ethos of many Italians contrasted with the more conservative bent of their leaders. The historical expeditions in Africa and the Italian-Turkish war seemed exercises in asserting their status. The bloated military (1.8MM army, massively trimmed here) spoke to both insecurity, and the ability to be counted among the powers.   These are among the elements that have colored Italy's participation and views in the AH civil war.

Following the logic line that if reunification is good for Italians, it should be good for others- even slavs (who they kinda looked down on), and it would produce a viable nation in the Hungary/Rumania size. So I decided to present that idea.

I knew the Germans would like to have the productive Czech lands, and so would propose that.
I expected the Russian proposal would be something like to appoint themselves protectors of the Slavs and demand Czechoslovakia for themselves - instead they just claimed Slovakia.
I expected France would be overjoyed at the fall of a member of the Triple Alliance and seek to break it into as many parts as possible - to make the chance of them reuniting as German allies low. France could threaten to militarily back Russia as a means of persuasion, with consideration that this was a marvelous opportunity as temporarily AustriaHungary would be unable to to provide effective support to Germany in times of war.

With Germany and Russia both- I thought- wanting control of the Czechoslovak area, and Italy wanting it independent, I thought France would wind up backing Italy, and bringing the Russians round. The UK, typically concerned about the balance of power, would not wish to see either North Sea neighbor get stronger, and probably would back the Italian proposal.

I would have been tickled with a Czechoslovak result, even if it's irrelevant to Italy.

Boy, I guessed wrong how that would go :)

[Darman]

OOC: Britain would probably be supporting a Czechoslovakia idea, i'm just having trouble writing up the proper article.  Also, the conservative govt has to be careful when talking about nationalism.

[Jefgte]

Czechoslovakia independant state idea is supporting by France.
Expansionisms of Germany, Italy & Russia are enough.

[miketr]

The German Foreign Minister stands again, "The German Governments notes that there is a good deal of support among the various powers for the idea of  Czech State.  The German government at this time does NOT say if we accept this or not.  IF such an Idea were to occur what of the ethnic German Majority areas surounded by Czechs?  Does this conference accept that these Germans have a right to be part of Germany?"

[Guinness]

Since we're all OOC: are the Brits actually in attendance at the conference?

[Tanthalas]

Looks like it.

Since we're all OOC: are the Brits actually in attendance at the conference?

The United Kingdom is sending several members of the government to "observe and advise" the proceedings.  The United Kingdom is currently not exercising its voice but reserves that right. 

Members of the party are as follows:
Henry James, 1st Baron James of Hereford (Baron James of Hereford)
Sir William Walrond, Bt
St. John Brodrick

[miketr]

Since we're all OOC: are the Brits actually in attendance at the conference?

Are you still tied up?

Michael

[Guinness]

Are you still tied up?

Michael

Perpetually. ;-) But in this case, I've been working behind the scenes, and now I'm waiting for Darman.

[The Rock Doctor]

OOC:  Dun dun DUN!

[Darman]

Date: 10 July 1900***
St. John Brodrick looks over at his Russian counterpart Count Izvolsky and smiles uneasily.  "Her Majesty's government is constrained for domestic reasons from expressing extreme vocal support for the creation of three viably separate and independent nations, but is willing to provide support to a proposal guaranteeing independence to the Czechs, the Slovaks, and Hungary that might be put forward by Russia.  Our delegation early on had stated that we wished to remain in observer status only, however, depending on additional instructions from London that may soon be changing.  Negotiations to involve the French are ongoing, as everyone would lose if Germany gained more than just Austria without a fight. 

[OOC: Obviously the fact that this meeting took place is known to all participants, but what was said is known only to the British and Russian delegations. 
Again, as for dates, I'm still somewhat at a loss as to exact dates. 

Edit: ***same disclosure as below, I'm assuming this date works

[Darman]

Date: 15 July 1900***

Lord Rosebery looks out over Valetta Harbor, pondering his instructions from Whitehall.  It is unusual for a member of the Opposition to be selected for such a sensitive diplomatic mission, and he wondered what that meant.  Presumably it was intended to sooth any ruffled Liberal feathers, after all, the negotiations in Constantinople were re-drawing the map of Europe such as hadn't been done since the Congress of Vienna!  Upon arrival at Gibraltar, HMS Foresight had received a message: Whitehall had cabled ahead with instructions to wait at Malta for an important personage to join the convoy (HMS Foresight had been joined by her sister ship HMS Sentinel, as well as the Canopus-class battleship HMS Albion, and 6 Banshee-class destroyers (HMS Banshee, HMS Contest, HMS Dragon, HMS Flirt, HMS Skate, and HMS Swordfish)).  A sudden commotion around him brought Rosebery out of his revery and he noticed a new vessel entering the harbor.  She proudly flew the red, white, and blue ensign of the French Navy, and she pulled smoothly alongside HMS Albion, on whose quarterdeck Rosebery stood.  Behind the Cyclone came the armored cruisers Beaugency and Pontvalain.  "So," Roseberry thought to himself, "the French have decided to attend after all."


(***date can be changed, I was basing off Rock's assumption of an 18 July passage through the Dardanelles....)