Dutch Ships 1900 on

[Tanthalas]

and the latest incarnation of my "Battle Cruiser".  The idea was to see how large a ship would have to be in order to mount 8X11/45, an extensive 10" belt, and still be capable of hitting a reasonable speed (I ended up at 23 knots, which while not as fast as some is still respectable IMHO).  If I built this ship it would likely only be at a 2BB-1BC ratio at best.

Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   18,000 t light; 18,810 t standard; 20,168 t normal; 21,254 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
   (169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m  x (9.14 / 9.53 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      Weight of broadside 7,008 lbs / 3,179 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   415.00 ft / 126.49 m   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   142.00 ft / 43.28 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   275.00 ft / 83.82 m   7.50 ft / 2.29 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38,080 ihp / 28,407 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,445 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   846 - 1,100

Cost:
   £1.983 million / $7.933 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,283 tons, 6.4 %
      - Guns: 1,283 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 5,421 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 3,032 tons, 15.0 %
      - Armament: 876 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,290 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 223 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 5,464 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,532 tons, 27.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,168 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,278 lbs / 6,023 Kg = 20.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.549 / 0.555
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.61 ft / 4.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,891 Square feet or 2,777 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 674 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

Not really all that different than the preceding version but I decided to go with a Q turret instead of a Raised X, made a few trims and got it down to 17.5K.  God Damn do I like this ship... I really want to build it but I am having trouble justifying it internally, honestly I should build as small and as cheep as I can but GOD DAMN I want to build her.  The drawing is only rough but everything should fit...

Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,500 t light; 18,300 t standard; 19,637 t normal; 20,707 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
   (169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m  x (9.14 / 9.53 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      Weight of broadside 7,008 lbs / 3,179 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   419.00 ft / 127.71 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   138.00 ft / 42.06 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   275.00 ft / 83.82 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,291 ihp / 27,819 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,407 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   829 - 1,078

Cost:
   £1.950 million / $7.800 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,283 tons, 6.5 %
      - Guns: 1,283 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 5,196 tons, 26.5 %
      - Belts: 2,931 tons, 14.9 %
      - Armament: 789 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,273 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 204 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 5,351 tons, 27.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,345 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,137 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 1.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 325 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,938 lbs / 5,868 Kg = 19.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.61 ft / 4.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,492 Square feet or 2,740 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 660 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

Of late I am having a bit of a love affair with the OTL HMS Lion... God they were beautiful ships, so I decided to rework my Armoured Frigate a bit to see how it would work as a shrunk lion.  Actually came out fairly well I think, this would allow me to later have a love affair with Hood... armour is a bit heavy in comparison to OTL but it is fitting with my principals I think.  While substantially bigger than any of the ones I have previously given serious consideration to, I think I could justify the growth... I have this whole series of conversations half way worked out in my head.

As always opinions are welcome.


Nike, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,500 t light; 18,230 t standard; 19,565 t normal; 20,633 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (557.00 ft / 557.00 ft) x 77.00 ft x (30.00 / 31.27 ft)
   (169.77 m / 169.77 m) x 23.47 m  x (9.14 / 9.53 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 6,195 lbs / 2,810 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   412.00 ft / 125.58 m   12.50 ft / 3.81 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   145.00 ft / 44.20 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   275.00 ft / 83.82 m   7.50 ft / 2.29 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,183 ihp / 27,739 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,402 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   826 - 1,075

Cost:
   £1.905 million / $7.619 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,130 tons, 5.8 %
      - Guns: 1,130 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 4,979 tons, 25.5 %
      - Belts: 2,673 tons, 13.7 %
      - Armament: 879 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,270 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 156 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,336 tons, 27.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,730 tons, 29.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,065 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 326 tons, 1.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 326 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,072 lbs / 6,836 Kg = 22.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.532 / 0.538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Forward deck:   50.00 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.02 ft / 5.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,437 Square feet or 2,735 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 667 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

a "Colonial Cruiser" Sure it isn't a true battleship/battlecruiser but it is big and tough enough to make someone send real ones to deal with it.  Sort of an Olympia with better (and more) guns,  the low cost and relatively high speed (for the time) make for an interesting package.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   9,000 t light; 9,439 t standard; 10,226 t normal; 10,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 66.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.16 ft)
   (134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.12 m  x (7.92 / 8.28 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   356.00 ft / 108.51 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     84.00 ft / 25.60 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
     1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   286.65 ft / 87.37 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   507 - 660

Cost:
   £1.108 million / $4.430 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 803 tons, 7.9 %
      - Guns: 803 tons, 7.9 %
   Armour: 1,879 tons, 18.4 %
      - Belts: 681 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armament: 496 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 640 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,818 tons, 27.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,465 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,226 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 0.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 35 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,020 lbs / 2,731 Kg = 9.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.473 / 0.481
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.68 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.72 ft / 4.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,925 Square feet or 1,758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

*edit* forgot to put in the report >.<

[Walter]

Couple of issues:
1

1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends

2

Coal and oil fired boilers
...
Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)

3

No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts

Also, a BC of 0.473 seems way too low to me.

[Logi]

Beyond the issues Walter mentioned:

Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 26,630 ihp / 19,866 Kw = 23.00 kts

You're over the mixed propulsion SHP limit (presuming you use 4 shafts)

And I agree with Walter that your Cb is excessively low. Sub-0.500 Cb is firmly in DD territory. This is exacerbated by the ABY large caliber armament on a very thin beam. The OTL Brandenburgs, one of the thinnest ships mounting battleship-caliber guns was 19.5m (you're at 20.12) and certainly had a much higher Cb than your design.

I also find the main/end belt armor to be excessively short. You mitigate this by having a upper belt, but practically the ship's armor thickness is the upper belt thickness. Why not just eliminate the upper belt by making the main belt taller and then thinning out the main belt. You might get a uniform  105mm belt instead of what is effectively a 76mm belt.

Btw, the freeboard on your ship is odd. It's a flush-decker but the the rise from midbreak to bow is quite large so I have suspicions that your A gun wouldn't be able to fire in the forward arc at all since battle ranges are at low elevation right now and there's an almost 1.5m rise from bow to the forecastle (i.e. before turret A).

[Tanthalas]

actually the no drive thing bothers me the most LOL I opened the file and it is listed as Direct, make the report and it goes no drive... now I am wondering what the hell I did to SS3.  The BC is legal under our rules, and the free board is literally clicked Flush Deck and rounded to even numbers.  DOPH *back to the drawing board on the over SHP thing... I swore it was 26600 not 25600, although I still think that approach is flawed

BTW, now yall made me want to build it =P when it was just a blue sky proposal... *wanders off to play with it some more*

OH btw Logi the armour was my attempt (admittedly likely flawed) to sim the "late" Protected Cruisers, with the "skirts" on their protected decks.

[Walter]

actually the no drive thing bothers me the most LOL I opened the file and it is listed as Direct, make the report and it goes no drive... now I am wondering what the hell I did to SS3.

I was trying to look on my end to see what could be wrong by entering all your values into SS. I get the direct drive in my report, but for some weird reason the weights for the belts and armament is lower on my sim...

Now I noticed that I forgot to trim the vessel to match yours but that is not going to have any influence on the weights of the belt armor and armament armor...

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   9,000 t light; 9,439 t standard; 10,226 t normal; 10,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 66.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.16 ft)
   (134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.12 m  x (7.92 / 8.28 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   356.00 ft / 108.51 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     84.00 ft / 25.60 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
     1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   286.65 ft / 87.37 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,634 ihp / 19,869 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,416 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   507 - 660

Cost:
   £1.108 million / $4.430 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 803 tons, 7.9 %
      - Guns: 803 tons, 7.9 %
   Armour: 1,841 tons, 18.0 %
      - Belts: 679 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armament: 461 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 640 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,818 tons, 27.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,502 tons, 34.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,226 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 0.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 35 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,202 lbs / 2,813 Kg = 9.3 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.473 / 0.481
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.68 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.91 ft / 4.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,930 Square feet or 1,759 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.02
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room


Now what was even weirder was that when I reloaded the sim and reentered the belt heights, I suddenly gained a little bit of weight when reentering the main belt height and the upper belt height. ???

The BC is legal under our rules

The guideline is:

0.38 is the absolute minimum.  Coefficients should be reflective of the size and speed of the vessel.

I would probably look at armament as well, And considering that you are aiming at the maximum you can get out of the machinery that is allowed under our tech rules, I guess you are most likely looking at a minimum of at least 0.55 and maybe even more (although that is a bit of a guess).

and the free board is literally clicked Flush Deck and rounded to even numbers.

That is weird because when I hit "Flush Deck", I get 23.1, 18.9 and 14.7 as values which I would round to 23, 19 and 15 and not 21, 17 amd 13...

[Tanthalas]

IDK, I did something on that sim that has it all fucked up, so I deleted it and started over cause it was doing WEIRD stuff (like constantly deleting the drive... and I couldn't figure out why).  Decided best to just start from scratch and try to get it right instead of spending hours pounding my head against something that was seriously broken.  Newer version, sorta meh honestly although I did take logis advice on the belt.  Truth told I could proly trim another 300 tons off it fairly easy, but as you said I am basically what I consider the low end on BC (I don't like going under a .500 for anything bigger than a DD), Honestly at this point I would expect them to have troubled careers, somewhat like what happened with the brit large light cruisers LOL.  Freeboard on this version is "I liked the line" (aka it would be easy to draw)

AFX-1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8,800 t light; 9,235 t standard; 10,012 t normal; 10,634 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 67.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.11 ft)
   (134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 20.42 m  x (7.32 / 7.65 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     14 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   351.00 ft / 106.98 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     90.00 ft / 27.43 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      5.00" / 127 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,597 ihp / 19,095 Kw = 22.79 kts
   Range 6,260nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,398 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £1.081 million / $4.326 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 813 tons, 8.1 %
      - Guns: 813 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 1,552 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 523 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armament: 449 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 520 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,682 tons, 26.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,440 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,212 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 313 tons, 3.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 313 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,296 lbs / 2,856 Kg = 9.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.494 / 0.502
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.84 ft / 4.52 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,584 Square feet or 1,819 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 633 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[eltf177]

I like her, but the casemated Secondary Battery STILL has no protection... :o

[Tanthalas]

Throwing out everything but the essentials, I can get it down to 8282 light and 23 knots.  So here it is the new shiny version.

AFX_1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8,282 t light; 8,706 t standard; 9,427 t normal; 10,004 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (441.00 ft / 441.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (23.00 / 24.07 ft)
   (134.42 m / 134.42 m) x 19.51 m  x (7.01 / 7.34 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,416 lbs / 2,003 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   441.00 ft / 134.42 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,600 ihp / 19,098 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,298 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   477 - 621

Cost:
   £1.063 million / $4.254 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 803 tons, 8.5 %
      - Guns: 803 tons, 8.5 %
   Armour: 1,479 tons, 15.7 %
      - Belts: 490 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armament: 463 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 497 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,682 tons, 28.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,281 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,145 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 37 tons, 0.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 37 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,308 lbs / 2,408 Kg = 8.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.508 / 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.37 ft / 4.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,946 Square feet or 1,760 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 625 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Tanthalas]

So I know I post alot of ships but I have managed to narrow down my next big girl to 2 proposals... both are 17K tons, both hit 23 knots... Hope yall can help me decide which one to use.  this is proposal A, basically lion shrunk to 81% of her original size with 11" instead of 13.5" guns, yes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates (and I could use some of the misc weight to give them splinter shields I suppose).

AF-1904-A, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,682 t standard; 18,751 t normal; 19,606 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (570.50 ft / 570.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.04 ft)
   (173.89 m / 173.89 m) x 21.87 m  x (8.84 / 9.16 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,808 lbs / 2,634 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   145.00 ft / 44.20 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   405.06 ft / 123.46 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.50" / 216 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,915 ihp / 26,792 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 5,610nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,924 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   800 - 1,041

Cost:
   £1.843 million / $7.372 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 4,743 tons, 25.3 %
      - Belts: 2,133 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armament: 1,061 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,397 tons, 7.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 152 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,154 tons, 27.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,659 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,751 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 388 tons, 2.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 388 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,879 lbs / 6,295 Kg = 20.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.54

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.558
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Forward deck:   45.60 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Aft deck:   18.70 %,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.09 ft / 5.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,647 Square feet or 2,661 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 658 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

Proposal B (which is honestly proly a better ship) has heavier armour (and I armoured the casemates), but a lower freeboard think shrunk Lion with a Flush deck.

AF-1904-B, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,682 t standard; 18,751 t normal; 19,606 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (570.50 ft / 570.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.05 ft)
   (173.89 m / 173.89 m) x 21.87 m  x (8.84 / 9.16 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5,808 lbs / 2,634 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   424.00 ft / 129.24 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   146.00 ft / 44.50 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   405.06 ft / 123.46 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.50" / 216 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,913 ihp / 26,791 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 5,610nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,924 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   800 - 1,041

Cost:
   £1.843 million / $7.372 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
      - Guns: 1,057 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 5,062 tons, 27.0 %
      - Belts: 2,486 tons, 13.3 %
      - Armament: 977 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,448 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 152 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,153 tons, 27.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,340 tons, 28.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,751 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 388 tons, 2.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 388 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,466 lbs / 5,654 Kg = 18.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.553 / 0.558
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   45.60 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   18.70 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.98 ft / 4.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,644 Square feet or 2,661 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 646 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Walter]

yes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates

My book shows them to be clearly armored casemates, but fails to mention how thick thin it is... probably as much as you have on the second design.

[Jefgte]

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (570.50 ft x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.05 ft)
  (173.89 m x 21.87 m  x (8.84 / 9.16 m)

Did you have shipyards for that ship ?