Dutch Ships 1900 on

[Tanthalas]

Personaly I still don't understand why we cant use the torp thing... I LIKE having my torps listed with weaponry.  I also add the misc weight, and if I am wasting a couple tons so bloody be it, it makes for a neat report.

the guns are listed where they actually are, since it has like most period destroyers a very short raised foredeck, putting the guns on it would move them up a deck so "aft deck forward" is the most logical placement in my mind over foredeck aft, and as to the BC DAMMIT, how did I screw that up... I started with my startup destroyers and they were legal LOL.

[Kaiser Kirk]

A) Agreed. I like the text. I've toyed with just doing to versions and cutting & pasting the text, but I'm lazy.  My preference is to list the tubes, but have the ammo under misc weight.

B) understood.

C) I would bet you started with BC.38, built the ship with a 70m hull to fit slips/docks. Then trimmed for tonnage to 500. Then needed more seakeeping/speed, and so stretched the hull longer....while the tonnage tab was still set....and so the BC varied...
*Not* that I've ever made that sequence occur.

[Tanthalas]

so I reworked it a bit (ok ok more or less scraped it and started over) but it should now be within the rules (BC is actually kinda high for period DDs).  Still has 3 shafts, but I figure if the brits could fit 4 on 21 foot beam (Cobra and Velox) I should be able to fit 3 on 22 foot.  Note I added the torpedo information manually, the actual accounting is in Misc weight.

DD-03, Netherlands Destroyer laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 520 t standard; 607 t normal; 677 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (264.47 ft / 260.00 ft) x 22.00 ft x (9.10 / 9.79 ft)
   (80.61 m / 79.25 m) x 6.71 m  x (2.77 / 2.98 m)

Armament:
      5 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      1 raised mount
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 71 lbs / 32 kg
      3 - 18" Deck mounted torpedo tubes with 1 reload per tube (6 tons total weight accounted in Misc weight)

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 11,585 shp / 8,642 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 157 tons (90% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   60 - 79

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.277 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 2.5 %
      - Guns: 15 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 341 tons, 56.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 134 tons, 22.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 107 tons, 17.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 1.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 7 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     127 lbs / 58 Kg = 9.4 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.408 / 0.423
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.80 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   14.30 %,  14.80 ft / 4.51 m,  14.20 ft / 4.33 m
      - Forward deck:   10.00 %,  14.20 ft / 4.33 m,  13.70 ft / 4.18 m
      - Aft deck:   62.20 %,  7.45 ft / 2.27 m,  7.45 ft / 2.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   13.50 %,  7.45 ft / 2.27 m,  8.45 ft / 2.58 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.17 ft / 2.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,538 Square feet or 329 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 31 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 100 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

6 tons misc weight
3 torpedos, and 3 reloads

Trials Speed 30.5 Knots (+2.5 knots)

[Tanthalas]

Ok so it isn't finished (I still have .10 composite to play around with I will likely go with more shells for the guns honestly since I cant get any worthwhile armor for that), but I thought I would go ahead and post it up and get opinions.  This will be (if I actually build it and I am leaning that way) the first class of Dutch Turbine powered ships.  Based loosely on the OTL US Chester Class (VERY LOOSELY basically I just stole the hull), Gun layout is similar to the OTL Omaha Class (but obviously I couldn't do the twin mounts fore and aft) with minor modification for the Chester Hull.  They would serve alongside my existing Protected/light cruisers, the lay down year is flexible (I don't have the turbine tech just yet but will soonish) and as always opinions/advice is welcomed.

CLX-1903, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,700 t light; 3,889 t standard; 4,874 t normal; 5,662 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (423.00 ft / 423.00 ft) x 47.10 ft x (16.80 / 18.86 ft)
   (128.93 m / 128.93 m) x 14.36 m  x (5.12 / 5.75 m)

Armament:
      3 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,100 lbs / 499 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,900 shp / 14,845 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,773 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   291 - 379

Cost:
   £0.431 million / $1.726 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 217 tons, 4.4 %
      - Guns: 217 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 48 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 0.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,642 tons, 33.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,793 tons, 36.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,174 tons, 24.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,334 lbs / 1,966 Kg = 40.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 11.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 90 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.527
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   11.50 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Forward deck:   13.50 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.25 ft / 5.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,397 Square feet or 1,245 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 407 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.02
      - Longitudinal: 2.31
      - Overall: 1.10
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[The Rock Doctor]

No deck protection at all?

The rest of it looks pretty capable.

[Tanthalas]

Yeah that version of it has no deck armour, I have another version that's 100 tons heavier (still under the 20K shp limit) that has a 1" deck, I am just not sure that 1" is worth bothering with...  This is the 1" deck version, 50 tons heavier uses most of my spare composite.

CLX-1903, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,750 t light; 3,940 t standard; 4,932 t normal; 5,725 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (423.00 ft / 423.00 ft) x 47.10 ft x (17.20 / 19.28 ft)
   (128.93 m / 128.93 m) x 14.36 m  x (5.24 / 5.88 m)

Armament:
      3 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1903 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,100 lbs / 499 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,990 shp / 14,913 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,785 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   293 - 382

Cost:
   £0.434 million / $1.737 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 217 tons, 4.4 %
      - Guns: 217 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 264 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 215 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,649 tons, 33.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,620 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,182 tons, 24.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,534 lbs / 2,056 Kg = 42.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   11.50 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Forward deck:   13.50 %,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m,  22.50 ft / 6.86 m
      - Aft deck:   60.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m,  15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.25 ft / 5.26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,320 Square feet or 1,237 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 370 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

And just for Kicks a 22 knot "Armoured" Frigate.  worked it out following the "final" rule limit proposal on mixed propulsion.  The armour is well tbh light, but trade offs  must be made and I chose speed and firepower off the triangle.  As always opinions welcomed.

AFX-1904, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   11,250 t light; 11,778 t standard; 12,993 t normal; 13,965 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (505.50 ft / 505.50 ft) x 73.50 ft x (27.00 / 28.43 ft)
   (154.08 m / 154.08 m) x 22.40 m  x (8.23 / 8.67 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 5,085 lbs / 2,307 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   330.00 ft / 100.58 m   10.29 ft / 3.14 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   165.50 ft / 50.44 m   10.29 ft / 3.14 m
     10.00 ft / 3.05 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   330.00 ft / 100.58 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.50" / 191 mm   4.50" / 114 mm      7.50" / 191 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm  Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,731 ihp / 19,195 Kw = 22.26 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,187 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   608 - 791

Cost:
   £1.203 million / $4.810 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 895 tons, 6.9 %
      - Guns: 895 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 2,887 tons, 22.2 %
      - Belts: 1,395 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armament: 759 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 614 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 119 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,723 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,486 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,743 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.0 %
      - Hull above water: 260 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,399 lbs / 6,531 Kg = 21.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.453 / 0.463
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  30.50 ft / 9.30 m,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m,  25.50 ft / 7.77 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.71 ft / 6.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,763 Square feet or 2,208 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

This is another version of the max mixed propulsion Idea, it is incomplete at this point but I thought I would throw it out anyway.  It is sort of an oddball semi dread idea, and as far as I know no one built anything like it OTL, best I could tell the rules don't even account for the layout until Dreadnought era, which makes me sadly sort of doubt its legality (Which sucks cause it would be damn cool and a total departure from anything built OTL).  As to aforementioned "odd" layout best description I can think of would be Dreadnought sans one midships turret so aqqy with the "Q turrets" being one to port and one to starboard directly a crossed ship from each other (aka you could only fire the "Midships" turrets one on either beam no cross ship capability).  However being hypothetically capable of firing 6 guns directly forward or in the majority of arcs (Directly aft would also be a no go).   Given how lightly armoured it is I would expect her to have a career filled with issues (blast damage etc from firing the midships turrets directly forward as an example) but dammit its a cool looking ship and would provide me with something "Alternate" to the retreads of OTL ships we are all building.

As said Incomplete. but .14 composite would likely give me enough to add secondaries and misc. weight

AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   12,835 t light; 13,392 t standard; 14,536 t normal; 15,451 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (519.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.24 ft)
   (158.19 m / 158.19 m) x 22.56 m  x (7.92 / 8.30 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 5,328 lbs / 2,417 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   363.30 ft / 110.73 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   155.68 ft / 47.45 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   363.30 ft / 110.73 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm  Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,600 ihp / 19,843 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 7,265nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,060 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   661 - 860

Cost:
   £1.341 million / $5.364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 976 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 976 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 3,557 tons, 24.5 %
      - Belts: 1,916 tons, 13.2 %
      - Armament: 808 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 667 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 167 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 2,787 tons, 19.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,515 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,701 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,272 lbs / 7,381 Kg = 24.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  29.50 ft / 8.99 m,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m,  24.50 ft / 7.47 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.71 ft / 5.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,807 Square feet or 2,398 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 735 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.07
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 1.14
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

And for anyone that is even marginally interested here is what the wing turret ship would look like in its final form.  Haven't distributed the misc. weight but I got a fairly hefty chunk of it for a period ship, managed to improve the deck armour, and managed to fit enough secondaries/tritaries to make any TB skipper wonder if closing is really such a good idea.  I have even roughed in a picture of it to make sure everything fit.  I think this layout would be more realistic honestly than my fast AQY ships (which are legal though even I have NO idea where I would actually put the engines).  As always opinions are welcomed, even though I think sadly looking at the rules that this type of ship is not possible until the dreadnought era, at which point there is no reason to build it...

So mods what ya say a one off protodread (well 3 off since I would build a class).  You can consider this me begging and groveling if it would help, I will even promise to take wing turret ships as my dreadnought type (seriously that's me offering to build non SF dreadnoughts initially hows that for shock factor).   :P

AFX-1903, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1903 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   12,775 t light; 13,422 t standard; 14,534 t normal; 15,423 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (523.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 74.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.21 ft)
   (159.41 m / 158.19 m) x 22.56 m  x (7.92 / 8.29 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1903 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1903 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      20 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1903 Model
     18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 raised mounts
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,408 lbs / 2,907 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   363.30 ft / 110.73 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   155.68 ft / 47.45 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   363.30 ft / 110.73 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,599 ihp / 19,843 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 7,044nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,001 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   661 - 860

Cost:
   £1.394 million / $5.575 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,176 tons, 8.1 %
      - Guns: 1,176 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 3,824 tons, 26.3 %
      - Belts: 1,916 tons, 13.2 %
      - Armament: 853 tons, 5.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 889 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Towers: 167 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 2,787 tons, 19.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,702 tons, 32.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,759 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 286 tons, 2.0 %
      - Hull above water: 286 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,315 lbs / 6,947 Kg = 23.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -17.85 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  29.50 ft / 8.99 m,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  27.00 ft / 8.23 m,  24.50 ft / 7.47 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.71 ft / 5.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,811 Square feet or 2,398 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.87
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

and I realize proly no one is interested, and it proly wont get mod approval, but what the heck I figure as good as the drawing turned out, I might as well go ahead and post it up.  So here it is what the wing turret ship would if built look like.


(Click to see full size)

[Jefgte]

IMO, with 74ft beam, the wing turrets could'nt rotate with the first stack between them.

Really a pleasant drawing, Tan

Jef

[Tanthalas]

Thanks Jef, it all hypothetically fits, at least it would fit better than the Q turret ships (I could do an overhead, but IDK if I am that motivated LOL.  My only defense (such as it is) is the fact that Dreadnought with her larger turrets was only 82' wide, and from the various overhead drawings they apparently had room to spare.  I could widen her out a bit, but the weight would have to come from somewhere...

Edit for Clarity

the working radius on the turrets (aft over hang since that's all that matters) would be 32' for a total of 64' so I have 10' between them... Proly room for the stack but not much more.

[Walter]

You're going for side by side turrets. Any reason why you do not use a staggered layout like Von Der Tann and other such ships? I would think that that would give you a more breathing space for your wing turrets.

[Tanthalas]

You're going for side by side turrets. Any reason why you do not use a staggered layout like Von Der Tann and other such ships? I would think that that would give you a more breathing space for your wing turrets.

I could, but I figured if I was trying to argue for it before I had dreadnought tech it would be best to build it so there was no way in hell I could cross deck.  Interestingly the "next generation" of my AFs would be almost identical to VdT in layout.

[Walter]

Don't you have the four funnels to prevent cross deck fire?