Dutch Ships 1900 on

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 12:39:23 PM

Trying to do my H1 and H2 reports... and I find myself in a bit of a quandary. Build Battlecruisers, Build Armored Cruisers, or build Protected Cruisers... the decision will be atleast partialy determind by what tech I pick, but I thought hey why not post all 3 and ask for opinions.

First up would be obviously the Battlecruiser (so what if I call it an Armored Frigate, we all know what they realy are). Esentialy repeats of the previous Admiral class, just with better guns (cause lets face it the shell weight on my existing 11" is kinda pathetic). This choice would entail me taking the 1900 naval artillery tech.

Admiral Class Flight 2, Netherlands Armored Frigate laid down 1900

Displacement:
   11,000 t light; 11,568 t standard; 13,114 t normal; 14,350 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
   (141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)

Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 5,276 lbs / 2,393 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.335 t each, 2.010 t total
   In 6 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   162.00 ft / 49.38 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   301.00 ft / 91.74 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm     -           -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,202 ihp / 13,579 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,782 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   612 - 796

Cost:
   £1.215 million / $4.861 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 934 tons, 7.1 %
     - Guns: 931 tons, 7.1 %
     - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 3,843 tons, 29.3 %
     - Belts: 2,423 tons, 18.5 %
     - Armament: 583 tons, 4.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 716 tons, 5.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,816 tons, 21.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,336 tons, 25.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,114 tons, 16.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 71 tons, 0.5 %
     - On freeboard deck: 71 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,520 lbs / 5,225 Kg = 17.3 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.572 / 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,165 Square feet or 1,966 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 569 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

71 tons Misc. weight
12 tons 6 torpedos and 6 reloads
59 tons "Reserve" (aka I will fill it in when I figure it out)

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 12:47:31 PM

Second option (not so realistic but would entail taking the same tech), has the advantage of well costing less... the Armored Cruiser (even if I call it a second class Armored Frigate). Still quite a capable ship, just not as capable as the big girl.

Colony Class, Unified Netherlands Armored Frigate (2nd Class) laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,434 t standard; 9,704 t normal; 10,720 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (400.00 ft / 400.00 ft) x 61.00 ft x (26.00 / 28.12 ft)
   (121.92 m / 121.92 m) x 18.59 m x (7.92 / 8.57 m)

Armament:
4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 3,944 lbs / 1,789 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.335 t each, 1.340 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   290.00 ft / 88.39 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   110.00 ft / 33.53 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm     -           -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,812 ihp / 11,796 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,286 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   488 - 635

Cost:
   £0.933 million / $3.733 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 681 tons, 7.0 %
     - Guns: 679 tons, 7.0 %
     - Weapons: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2,286 tons, 23.6 %
     - Belts: 1,211 tons, 12.5 %
     - Armament: 448 tons, 4.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 568 tons, 5.9 %
     - Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,446 tons, 25.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,549 tons, 26.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,704 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 0.4 %
     - On freeboard deck: 38 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,401 lbs / 3,357 Kg = 11.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.535 / 0.547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,797 Square feet or 1,560 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 536 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

38 tons Misc Weight on "Stuff"

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 01:03:55 PM

and lastly the "Protected Cruiser", in many ways this is the ship I should build (even if I dont realy want to). Would obviously entail taking the cruiser tech but my light cruisers are 10 years old... they kinda need to be replaced (or atleast augmented).

City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   3,750 t light; 3,887 t standard; 4,362 t normal; 4,742 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (19.00 / 20.21 ft)
   (116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m x (5.79 / 6.16 m)

Armament:
4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 594 lbs / 269 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 16.0" / 406 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.245 t each, 0.981 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.50" / 38 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

- Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,352 ihp / 8,469 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 5,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 855 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   267 - 348

Cost:
   £0.426 million / $1.703 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 147 tons, 3.4 %
     - Guns: 146 tons, 3.3 %
     - Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 571 tons, 13.1 %
     - Armament: 33 tons, 0.8 %
     - Armour Deck: 537 tons, 12.3 %
   Machinery: 1,743 tons, 40.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,228 tons, 28.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 612 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 61 tons, 1.4 %
     - On freeboard deck: 61 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,557 lbs / 1,160 Kg = 23.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m, 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 140.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,964 Square feet or 1,019 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 345 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.71
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

61 tons Misc Weight Torps and "stuff"

snip · September 18, 2014, 01:20:04 PM

Well, the big ones will need to mount L40s as opposed to L45s. The L45 is only researchable with the correct gun tech and the earliest that tech would be available is 1900H1. So even if you take the tech as your freebee, it would still take two years to research then gun. Building those in 1902 is possible, 1900 not so much.

Also, GET THE TORPS OUT OF THE WEAPONS TAB! (Getting real tiered of saying this)

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 02:11:47 PM

I only list the torps to show where they are (mostly to satisfy my OCDness about everything being grouped together), I add aditional tonage in the misc weight to account for them (I know im proly paying for them twice but *shrug* it works and my OCD is satisfied). Damn knew I was forgeting somthing with the L45... DAMIT, uhm yeah so BCs would be exact repeats then, and I could still do the 8K AC, but not sure it would be worth it with the L40s although it would proly be lighter, or have better armor.

Quote from: snip on September 18, 2014, 01:20:04 PM
Well, the big ones will need to mount L40s as opposed to L45s. The L45 is only researchable with the correct gun tech and the earliest that tech would be available is 1900H1. So even if you take the tech as your freebee, it would still take two years to research then gun. Building those in 1902 is possible, 1900 not so much.

Also, GET THE TORPS OUT OF THE WEAPONS TAB! (Getting real tiered of saying this)

The Rock Doctor · September 18, 2014, 07:12:50 PM

Apparently using the tab at all somehow buggers up the file if/when it's reloaded. I'd rather use it too, but it seems best not to even for the OCD relief.

I don't like the aft freeboard on these designs - they're going to be wet in a lot of the blue water the Dutch have to sail around in.

Of the two larger ships, I think I'd go with the big girl. Infrastructure needs are the same, but there's more bang and much better protection.

The protected cruiser's fine, but I'm not sure what your force ratio is, nor what you seek.

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 07:25:31 PM

Honestly im tempted to build primarily Destroyers, "Light Cruisers", and "Battle Cruisers" with just enough ACs to round out deployments (aka ships to keep mostly in the Colonies). I think Idealy I would have somthing like 3 DD for each CL, 3 CL for each BC, and possibly 1 AC for each 2 BCs. Atleast that is the idea im working on atm.

Truth told Rock I dont like the aft freeboard, I would rather raise it another compleat deck, but I was scrounging for every bit of composite I could find so I kept it at one deck.

Hows it bugger the file? other than my normal loss of 7-14 tons (Every time I save ANY file in SS) I havnt had any issues.

The Rock Doctor · September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM

I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.

I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 08:22:26 PM

the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.

Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.

I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.

Tanthalas · September 18, 2014, 08:51:20 PM

A diferent take on my Admiral class, consider these the likley Mk2 edition (What the Dutch have alot of famous Admirals). Mostly just messed around with the freeboard so they wouldnt be quite as wet as the previous version, but several minor changes including switching to 10% oil fired (but if you look realy realy close you might find hints of things to come)

Admiral Class Flight 2, Netherlands Armored Frigate laid down 1900

Displacement:
   11,000 t light; 11,526 t standard; 13,069 t normal; 14,303 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
   (141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)

Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
Weight of broadside 4,454 lbs / 2,020 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   301.60 ft / 91.93 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   162.38 ft / 49.49 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   301.60 ft / 91.93 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm     -           -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,155 ihp / 13,543 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,777 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   610 - 794

Cost:
   £1.156 million / $4.623 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 818 tons, 6.3 %
     - Guns: 818 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 3,909 tons, 29.9 %
     - Belts: 2,424 tons, 18.5 %
     - Armament: 651 tons, 5.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 715 tons, 5.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,809 tons, 21.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,351 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,069 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 114 tons, 0.9 %
     - On freeboard deck: 114 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,725 lbs / 5,772 Kg = 19.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 18.20 ft / 5.55 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 18.20 ft / 5.55 m, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 15.50 ft / 4.72 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.28 ft / 4.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,127 Square feet or 1,963 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 553 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

114 tons Misc. weight
12 tons 6 torpedos and 6 reloads
102 tons "Reserve" (aka I will fill it in when I figure it out)

Tanthalas · September 19, 2014, 08:35:26 AM

and the latest creation of my mad mind, I think it is proly the best one so far honestly. Once again the Focus was on raising the freeboard as much as possible within my self imposed weight limit. OH and I distributed all the Misc. Weight so people would know what was on her.

Admirial Class Mk2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (1st Class) laid down 1900

Displacement:
   11,000 t light; 11,540 t standard; 13,084 t normal; 14,319 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (464.00 ft / 464.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.04 ft)
   (141.43 m / 141.43 m) x 19.51 m x (8.23 / 8.85 m)

Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 40.0 cal guns - 529.00lbs / 239.95kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,614 lbs / 2,093 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   301.00 ft / 91.74 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   163.00 ft / 49.68 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   301.00 ft / 91.74 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm     -           -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm     -           -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,170 ihp / 13,555 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,778 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   611 - 795

Cost:
   £1.162 million / $4.650 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 835 tons, 6.4 %
     - Guns: 835 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 3,859 tons, 29.5 %
     - Belts: 2,318 tons, 17.7 %
     - Armament: 712 tons, 5.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 710 tons, 5.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,811 tons, 21.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,424 tons, 26.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,084 tons, 15.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 71 tons, 0.5 %
     - Hull below water: 16 tons
     - Hull above water: 20 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 35 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,168 lbs / 5,973 Kg = 19.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.571 / 0.581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.54 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:      16.45 ft / 5.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,139 Square feet or 1,964 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 557 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.85
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

71 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 16 tons
4 tons sides: four 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of the Citidel per side)
12 tons: 3 reloads per tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 35 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
25 tons: reserve

The Rock Doctor · September 19, 2014, 08:41:18 AM

Quote from: Tanthalas on September 18, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.

Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.

I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.

So what did you decide?

Tanthalas · September 19, 2014, 08:54:15 AM

im thinking a pair of PCs in the 4K range, and 1 11K BC. Now I just have to decide which BC (I realy do kinda like the latest one) and which PC...

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 19, 2014, 08:41:18 AM
Quote from: Tanthalas on September 18, 2014, 08:22:26 PM
the idea behind the Admiral class is it is fast enough to scare AC/CL but armored enough (even if it is under armored by my normal standard) to make a real BB stand up and take notice. I intend to run AQY layouts till I can go to aBqy and I intend to push capital ship speed as hard as I can in the process (within limits obviously as everyone knows Derfflinger is more or less my ideal ship). You should hypotheticly be able to watch my ships slowly evolve to that point.

Oh and TY Rock you answerd my question for me, now I know what to laydown.

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 18, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
I don't recall how it affected the files specifically - only did it once or twice, and that was a month or two back.

I wouldn't bother with both ACs and BCs. Go with BCs if you want to smash CLs. Go with shore batteries and/or monitors if you want big defensive guns.

So what did you decide?

Tanthalas · September 21, 2014, 12:28:04 PM

Well I think im aobut settled in on this one for my new PC/CL (yes I think im going to take the 1900 cruiser tech, and I do have to decide before I can finish my H1 report...)

City Class Cruiser (Generation 2), Unified Netherlands Protected Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,154 t standard; 4,648 t normal; 5,043 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 383.00 ft) x 43.75 ft x (20.00 / 21.26 ft)
   (116.74 m / 116.74 m) x 13.34 m x (6.10 / 6.48 m)

Armament:
5 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      3 raised mounts
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 740 lbs / 336 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.50" / 38 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

- Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,833 ihp / 8,828 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 5,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 889 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   280 - 365

Cost:
   £0.456 million / $1.824 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 179 tons, 3.9 %
     - Guns: 179 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 600 tons, 12.9 %
     - Armament: 42 tons, 0.9 %
     - Armour Deck: 540 tons, 11.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,823 tons, 39.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,316 tons, 28.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 648 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 81 tons, 1.7 %
     - On freeboard deck: 81 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,700 lbs / 1,225 Kg = 25.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.485 / 0.496
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Forward deck:   20.00 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Aft deck:   45.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.80 ft / 4.51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 139.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,016 Square feet or 1,023 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

81 tons Misc Weight Torps and "stuff" (will be distributed but on deck for now)

Tanthalas · September 26, 2014, 08:18:44 AM

Not that I could build it any time soon (as the laydown date reflects), however I like to plan ahead, and I am curious if this would be legal under the rules. My idea was for a mixed power plant, 5,000 shp turbines on the outer 2 shafts with a 15000 shp VTE on the center shaft (I ended up at 17,093 on the center shaft so I got close). But I couldnt find anything in the rules about if it was legal or not so I thought I would go ahead and post it and ask for opinions.

Saint Michael, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate (First Class) laid down 1905

Displacement:
   13,000 t light; 13,612 t standard; 15,169 t normal; 16,415 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (528.00 ft / 528.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.57 ft)
   (160.93 m / 160.93 m) x 24.38 m x (7.92 / 8.40 m)

Armament:
6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,436 lbs / 2,466 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   330.00 ft / 100.58 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   197.00 ft / 60.05 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     1.00 ft / 0.30 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.38" / 35 mm   272.31 ft / 83.00 m   23.06 ft / 7.03 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 73.00 ft / 22.25 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27,093 ihp / 20,211 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,803 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   683 - 888

Cost:
   £1.295 million / $5.179 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,124 tons, 7.4 %
     - Guns: 1,124 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 4,280 tons, 28.2 %
     - Belts: 1,925 tons, 12.7 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 320 tons, 2.1 %
     - Armament: 757 tons, 5.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,146 tons, 7.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 132 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,839 tons, 18.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,689 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,169 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 69 tons, 0.5 %
     - On freeboard deck: 69 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,316 lbs / 8,762 Kg = 29.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.65

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.483 / 0.493
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Aft deck:   31.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Quarter deck:   19.00 %, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.45 ft / 5.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,727 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

69 tons Misc Weight on "Stuff" (aka if I actualy build it I will figure out where it goes)