Dutch Ships 1900 on

[snip]

You could go for an arrangement like the Tacoma's have . 7 guns, five centerline and two wing.

[Tanthalas]

Have played around with that as well.

You could go for an arrangement like the Tacoma's have . 7 guns, five centerline and two wing.

[olekit24]

Why 102 mm guns? They are useless ))

[Tanthalas]

Are they, proly... Would we know that, Proly not.  the 4" range was the most popular light cruiser /BB secondary gun in this period, the Germans used 4.1" the Brits used 4" heck the US used a 3" on the Chester class scout Cruisers (admittedly with a 5").  Point being that "in period" 4" isn't out of line (actually it is relatively normal)... Heck the Brits only went 6" cause their 4" was out ranged by the German 4.1".

All that said I have every intention of refitting all my 4" ships with 4.7" or 5" guns eventually, but that time isn't here yet (I try hard not to let hindsight get the better of me).

Why 102 mm guns? They are useless ))

[Tanthalas]

and the IDK I don't think I like it version... better firepower, Fits in a type 1 but... had to delete the hoists on the 4" to make it work... but on the plus side I got a 6" at either end.

CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,103 t standard; 3,601 t normal; 4,000 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.00 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.00 ft x (17.50 / 18.92 ft)
   (119.79 m / 117.81 m) x 11.89 m  x (5.33 / 5.77 m)

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      3 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
      Weight of broadside 361 lbs / 164 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm      0.25" / 6 mm
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm   0.10" / 3 mm            -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm  Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,634 shp / 14,647 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 897 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   232 - 302

Cost:
   £0.357 million / $1.427 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 87 tons, 2.4 %
      - Guns: 87 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 272 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 249 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,595 tons, 44.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,022 tons, 28.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 601 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,759 lbs / 798 Kg = 16.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.478 / 0.491
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.34 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   14.20 %,  21.50 ft / 6.55 m,  17.50 ft / 5.33 m
      - Forward deck:   46.60 %,  17.50 ft / 5.33 m,  9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  9.50 ft / 2.90 m,  9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.20 %,  9.50 ft / 2.90 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.83 ft / 3.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,845 Square feet or 915 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 306 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

and now for the WTF version... Seriously how did I make this work... Checked everything multiple times it is all there, based loosely on a couple OTL ships and it somehow works... Unless someone sees a glaring error I will likely build this...

CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,104 t standard; 3,391 t normal; 3,621 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (383.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 39.10 ft x (15.50 / 16.30 ft)
   (116.74 m / 115.82 m) x 11.92 m  x (4.72 / 4.97 m)

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.25" / 6 mm      0.25" / 6 mm
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm      0.25" / 6 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm  Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,353 shp / 14,437 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 516 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   221 - 288

Cost:
   £0.363 million / $1.453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 3.8 %
      - Guns: 129 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 274 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armament: 17 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 242 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,520 tons, 44.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,023 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 391 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 54 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 16 tons
      - Hull above water: 11 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 27 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,507 lbs / 683 Kg = 14.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.515 / 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.54 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.50 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Forward deck:   11.10 %,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Aft deck:   52.00 %,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m,  10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   18.40 %,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m,  16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.06 ft / 4.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 158.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,040 Square feet or 933 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 306 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

So I thought to myself "Self since you are asking for opinions on 2 ships and you gave both an extensive reworking, you should put them both up for people to look at".  So here they are the 14K ton 21 knot version (formerly 15.5K ton) and the 12.5K version (formerly 12K ton).  Both are actually very nice ships, but I can only build one or the other... although as close as I got them in tonnage I cant honestly say the 12.5K is better anymore.

First off the 14K ton ship (I could honestly proly get it to 13.5K tons with some acceptable tweaks like a slight reduction in armour)

AF-03-1904-2, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,645 t standard; 15,807 t normal; 16,736 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (520.00 ft / 520.00 ft) x 71.75 ft x (27.00 / 28.25 ft)
   (158.50 m / 158.50 m) x 21.87 m  x (8.23 / 8.61 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   338.00 ft / 103.02 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   182.00 ft / 55.47 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   338.00 ft / 103.02 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23,659 ihp / 17,650 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,091 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   704 - 916

Cost:
   £1.378 million / $5.510 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,103 tons, 7.0 %
      - Guns: 1,103 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 5,308 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 2,859 tons, 18.1 %
      - Armament: 970 tons, 6.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,315 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 163 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,479 tons, 15.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,680 tons, 29.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,807 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 431 tons, 2.7 %
      - Hull below water: 28 tons
      - Hull above water: 128 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,674 lbs / 7,563 Kg = 25.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.549 / 0.556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   31.68 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   32.62 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.60 ft / 4.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,013 Square feet or 2,417 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 649 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


and the 12.5K version

AFX-1904-1, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   12,500 t light; 13,119 t standard; 14,506 t normal; 15,615 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (519.00 ft / 519.00 ft) x 71.75 ft x (26.00 / 27.53 ft)
   (158.19 m / 158.19 m) x 21.87 m  x (7.92 / 8.39 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   182.00 ft / 55.47 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   337.00 ft / 102.72 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,601 shp / 13,876 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,496 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   660 - 859

Cost:
   £1.193 million / $4.772 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,121 tons, 7.7 %
      - Guns: 1,121 tons, 7.7 %
   Armour: 4,882 tons, 33.7 %
      - Belts: 2,501 tons, 17.2 %
      - Armament: 970 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,283 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 128 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,535 tons, 10.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,549 tons, 31.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,006 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 414 tons, 2.9 %
      - Hull below water: 14 tons
      - Hull above water: 125 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,766 lbs / 8,512 Kg = 28.2 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.533
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   31.68 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   32.62 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.64 ft / 4.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,374 Square feet or 2,357 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 654 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

14000t & 12500t - 4T2x279 - 20 & 21 kts...
hmmm, not enough differences.

Made a mix & build 1 class with a 170m hull...

Jef  ;)

[Logi]

Between the two I would prefer the 14 kton version. Mostly because the 12.5 kton version seems to be dangerously thin due to low Cb and beam. I also prefer it because the lower armor of armor makes the 12.5 kton version less future-proof.

[Walter]

Considering that it is a potential adversary, would it not be better that you try to convince him to build the 12.5 kton less future-proof vessel instead of the 14 kton version? :D

[Tanthalas]

Per Jefs request Bred the 2 on a 550' hull (sorry Jef couldn't get to 170 meters best I could do was 167.64).  Came out rather interesting actually LOL.  Interesting side effect of this version... from the side it would look identical to the 17K fast version... YAY for not having to make another drawing.  So without further grandstanding here it is, the new improved 14K ton version (Note it even has a name).

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,650 t standard; 15,827 t normal; 16,768 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (550.00 ft / 550.00 ft) x 72.50 ft x (26.00 / 27.20 ft)
   (167.64 m / 167.64 m) x 22.10 m  x (7.92 / 8.29 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,130 lbs / 2,781 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   197.00 ft / 60.05 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23,201 ihp / 17,308 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,118 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   705 - 917

Cost:
   £1.371 million / $5.484 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,104 tons, 7.0 %
      - Guns: 1,104 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 5,136 tons, 32.4 %
      - Belts: 2,618 tons, 16.5 %
      - Armament: 969 tons, 6.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,386 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 163 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,431 tons, 15.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,922 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,827 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 407 tons, 2.6 %
      - Hull below water: 28 tons
      - Hull above water: 104 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,296 lbs / 7,845 Kg = 26.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   31.68 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   32.62 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.56 ft / 4.74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,423 Square feet or 2,548 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 653 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[snip]

150 rounds seems light for the 4" guns.

[Tanthalas]

What would you think was reasonable? I went with 150 cause it was "standard" for SS3, would 250 be reasonable, 350, 500?
I only ask because I can go basically anywhere in that range with minimal changes.

150 rounds seems light for the 4" guns.

[snip]

I've been using 250 for 5" guns and 550 for 57mm. Now that is pre-GMI, so my thinking might change on the first true ships with that battle experience behind them.

[Tanthalas]

I went with 350 in the "current version".  Waiting for any other recommendations before I post it.