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Dutch Ships 1900 on

Started by Tanthalas, September 18, 2014, 12:39:23 PM

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Walter

Well, looking at the H2/1903 report, you get the impression that the Dutch don't have anything to build their ships...

... but at least it shows the initial population calculations for China. ;D

Tanthalas

@ Jef I have one dock and one slip that could take them, but I can shorten them a touch and widen em a touch and they fit on 557'

@ Walter  >:( DAMMIT I thought I got that fixed (and I openly admit I shamelessly stole your report).   None of my books give the actual armour on Lion's casemates... although I like you figure in the 2" range is proly appropriate.  I could ditch a little misc weight on the lion clone and add it, although personally even though the lion one would be effin gorgeous, think the heavier armour on the flush Decker would proly be better.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Tanthalas

So while the big kids are getting all the attention, they wont be my only projects in the upcoming naval bill.  Also on the list is a new "Light Cruiser".  Not sure this is legal even the BC is LOW IMHO... That said I based it loosely on the OTL Kolberg class of the German Navy (circa WW1).  I came in at 4299 normal and they were supposedly 4293 long tons according to my data sources, so I am 6 tons heavier on the same basic hull.

CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,500 t light; 3,616 t standard; 4,299 t normal; 4,846 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (426.50 ft / 426.50 ft) x 45.90 ft x (17.70 / 19.25 ft)
   (130.00 m / 130.00 m) x 13.99 m  x (5.39 / 5.87 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 360 lbs / 163 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm  Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.90" / 99 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 17,795 shp / 13,275 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,230 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   265 - 345

Cost:
   £0.353 million / $1.412 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 76 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 76 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 392 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 326 tons, 7.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,468 tons, 34.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,498 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 799 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 66 tons, 1.5 %
      - Hull above water: 41 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,448 lbs / 2,018 Kg = 139.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.434 / 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.62 ft / 5.37 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,330 Square feet or 1,145 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 331 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

The Rock Doctor

Seems pretty capable to me, and I think the BC is okay.

Jefgte

Well balanced 3500t cruiser, but ...

OTL German use small 105mm guns, did you have bigger guns?

;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

Tanthalas

Jef I have currently in my inventory the 4/45 and a 6/45.  Current Dutch naval thinking says the 6/45 has to slow a RoF to be useful against TBs and small cruisers (hence not using it on the Armoured Frigates), as such the Commonalty of ammo between the new AFs and the new CLs is viewed as a plus for extended deployments (aka basically anywhere in my far flung empire).

That said I went with 4/45 and 6/45 to give myself an excuse to eventually switch completely to 5 inch guns.  The time for that switch just hasn't arrived yet, but they can be refit with a full 5/45 battery to replace the 4/45s eventually.

Quote from: Jefgte on April 19, 2016, 03:27:21 PM
Well balanced 3500t cruiser, but ...

OTL German use small 105mm guns, did you have bigger guns?

;)
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

eltf177

Quote from: Tanthalas on April 17, 2016, 11:40:37 AMthis is proposal A, basically lion shrunk to 81% of her original size with 11" instead of 13.5" guns, yes the "casemates" are unarmoured but looking at OTL lion I think they were more like deck mounts than casemates (and I could use some of the misc weight to give them splinter shields I suppose).

In the past my rule of thumb was that casemate armor was the same as the gun it protected (i.e. a 6-inch gun would have a 6-inch casemate, a 3-inch gun a 3-inch casemate, etc). A 57mm would still have a 3-inch casemate as less is dangerous.

I looked up casemate armor for "Lion". Preston's BATTLESHIPS OF WORLD WAR ONE had nothing but Breyer's book surprised me - It says they had NO armor. You have to think at least an inch to give the crew some protection but not enough to keep out more that MG rounds and splinters...

Tanthalas

and here is yet another version of said ship.  Honestly the best one so far, and honestly I had no intention of designing it LOL.  Started out as a "create a unique looking 11/45 twin" and ended up with a whole freaking ship... the hull casemates are an intentional mistake honestly, and the drawing is almost finished (it is Honestly very very sexy)

HNMS Leeuw (Lion), Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   16,500 t light; 17,195 t standard; 18,295 t normal; 19,175 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (550.50 ft / 550.50 ft) x 71.75 ft x (29.00 / 30.11 ft)
   (167.79 m / 167.79 m) x 21.87 m  x (8.84 / 9.18 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      23 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     22 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 hull mount in casemate- Limited use in all but light seas
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,078 lbs / 2,757 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   422.00 ft / 128.63 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   128.50 ft / 39.17 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,924 ihp / 26,799 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 5,935nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,981 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   786 - 1,022

Cost:
   £1.840 million / $7.359 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,119 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 1,119 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 4,761 tons, 26.0 %
      - Belts: 2,236 tons, 12.2 %
      - Armament: 970 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,405 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 150 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,155 tons, 28.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,078 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,795 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 387 tons, 2.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 387 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,234 lbs / 5,096 Kg = 16.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.60 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forward deck:   31.68 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   32.62 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.10 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.56 ft / 4.74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,799 Square feet or 2,583 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 645 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Walter

Quotethe hull casemates are an intentional mistake honestly,
Well, with that low freeboard, it is to be expected that you get the "Limited use in all but light seas". I think any lower gives you the "Limited use in any seas" remark.
Quoteand the drawing is almost finished (it is Honestly very very sexy)
That is all a matter of opinion. Some people like Picasso but I think it is garbage. :)

... and I doubt it can beat the looks of the pic I created for a Wesworld carrier. But then, that is my opinion. :D

Tanthalas

Liner/Troopship, since everyone is coming up with one (ok ok so it is just Spain atm but I can see it coming).  it gives me great pleasure to introduce the Dutch proposal.

Koningin Wilhelmina van Nederland, Unified Netherlands Passenger Liner laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   18,000 t light; 18,483 t standard; 24,152 t normal; 28,687 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (666.50 ft / 655.00 ft) x 65.75 ft x (31.00 / 35.89 ft)
   (203.15 m / 199.64 m) x 20.04 m  x (9.45 / 10.94 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,399 ihp / 27,900 Kw = 22.50 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 22.30 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 10,204 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   968 - 1,259

Cost:
   £1.389 million / $5.555 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 5,420 tons, 22.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,455 tons, 22.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,152 tons, 25.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,125 tons, 29.5 %
      - Hull below water: 3,000 tons
      - Hull above water: 3,000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 1,100 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24,313 lbs / 11,028 Kg = 225.1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  33.00 ft / 10.06 m,  29.50 ft / 8.99 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  29.50 ft / 8.99 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Aft deck:   33.25 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarter deck:   16.75 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  27.50 ft / 8.38 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.09 ft / 7.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,488 Square feet or 3,018 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 463 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

7125 tons Misc Weight
25 Tons Long Range Wireless
Passengers
1,506 Passengers total
206 First Class
226 Second class
1,074 Third Class

Remaining weight Cargo
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Walter

Quoteok ok so it is just Spain atm but I can see it coming
I can already tell you that I have plans but won't post them until 1905 (when I lay them down and have the tech rolls). I currently have plans for 19 passenger vessels. :D

Tanthalas

3K ton version of the light cruiser project.  Same basic idea, just managed to scrunch it 500 tons and maintain a 7 gun broadside.  might look a bit to modern for the period (given nothing was using the all centerline layout yet that I can find)

CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,089 t standard; 3,586 t normal; 3,984 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (395.29 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.50 ft x (17.50 / 18.91 ft)
   (120.49 m / 117.81 m) x 12.04 m  x (5.33 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      7 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     7 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 210 lbs / 95 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm      0.25" / 6 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm  Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,544 shp / 14,580 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 895 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   231 - 301

Cost:
   £0.350 million / $1.400 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 62 tons, 1.7 %
      - Guns: 62 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 277 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 251 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,594 tons, 44.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,038 tons, 28.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 586 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 29 tons, 0.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 29 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,778 lbs / 806 Kg = 55.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.470 / 0.483
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.75 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   14.20 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   34.40 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   37.20 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.20 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.20 ft / 4.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,900 Square feet or 920 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Walter

This is just my opinion, but even though the previous one is 500 tons more expensive I like it more due to the casemate guns. The 3,000 ton also gets penalty points from me due to it being 0.49 m over the maximum size of the Type 1 slip/dock. :)

snip

The Morgantown class has all centerline, but only 4 guns.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Tanthalas

@snip Yeah but that was like literally the only class (that I can find anyway) and as you said only 4 guns

So Walter you would prefer this version I take it... I shouldn't post this cause I have literally no idea how to draw it but here it is 3K tons with 8 gun broadside (4X centerline aBXy 4 casemates on either side at deck level)

CLX-1904, Unified Netherlands Second Class Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,102 t standard; 3,600 t normal; 3,999 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (395.29 ft / 386.50 ft) x 39.50 ft x (17.50 / 18.91 ft)
   (120.49 m / 117.81 m) x 12.04 m  x (5.33 / 5.76 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 360 lbs / 163 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.25" / 6 mm      0.25" / 6 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm  Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,608 shp / 14,627 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 897 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   232 - 302

Cost:
   £0.353 million / $1.413 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 82 tons, 2.3 %
      - Guns: 82 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 282 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 251 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,596 tons, 44.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,013 tons, 28.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 600 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 0.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 27 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,791 lbs / 812 Kg = 56.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.472 / 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.75 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   14.20 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forward deck:   34.40 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   37.20 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.20 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.85 ft / 3.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,918 Square feet or 921 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 302 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War