IJN, Post-1900

[Kaiser Kirk]

Sorry, was referring to the  Katori battlecruiser on the hull casements.
Speed with deployed netting is indeed slowed. I know the RN took the fleet down the channel with nets out to prove the concept.  Still, up to you as to if it fits your planned use.
The recoaling would resolve most of the range issues.  12 colliers sounds like a sufficient # to maintain a reasonable delivery rate at distance, though I'd have to work through the need vs. transit time out & back and..well that's your gig :)

Katori/Satsuma, Japanese Battlecruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,829 t standard; 18,610 t normal; 19,235 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (557.74 ft / 557.74 ft) x 78.08 ft x (29.92 / 30.68 ft)
   (170.00 m / 170.00 m) x 23.80 m  x (9.12 / 9.35 m)

Armament:
      8 - 12.01" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 881.85lbs / 400.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      12 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 8,559 lbs / 3,882 kg

[Logi]

Here is a lighter attempt at the same cruiser.

The extra knot of max speed requires at lot in armament & firepower and leaves much to be desired.

Yubari, Japanese Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,270 t standard; 7,039 t normal; 7,654 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492.13 ft / 492.13 ft) x 49.87 ft x (20.08 / 21.40 ft)
   (150.00 m / 150.00 m) x 15.20 m  x (6.12 / 6.52 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 264.55lbs / 120.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,997 lbs / 906 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   321.52 ft / 98.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.23" / 82 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.92" / 125 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,936 shp / 14,872 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,384 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   383 - 499

Cost:
   £0.624 million / $2.497 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 456 tons, 6.5 %
      - Guns: 456 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 1,527 tons, 21.7 %
      - Belts: 761 tons, 10.8 %
      - Armament: 222 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 504 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 39 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,645 tons, 23.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,372 tons, 33.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,039 tons, 14.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,679 lbs / 3,483 Kg = 31.5 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.87 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  17.06 ft / 5.20 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.17 ft / 4.93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,351 Square feet or 1,519 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 465 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Dropping a 1 kn and increasing total tonnage by 500t yields significant armor improvements.

Yubari, Japanese Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   6,500 t light; 6,781 t standard; 7,575 t normal; 8,210 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (465.88 ft / 465.88 ft) x 50.20 ft x (22.31 / 23.73 ft)
   (142.00 m / 142.00 m) x 15.30 m  x (6.80 / 7.23 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 264.55lbs / 120.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,997 lbs / 906 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   203.41 ft / 62.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.92" / 125 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 18,024 shp / 13,446 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,429 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   405 - 527

Cost:
   £0.620 million / $2.479 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 459 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 459 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 2,213 tons, 29.2 %
      - Belts: 1,137 tons, 15.0 %
      - Armament: 329 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 681 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,487 tons, 19.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,342 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,075 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,712 lbs / 3,952 Kg = 35.7 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.508 / 0.518
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.28 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.85 ft / 4.83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,698 Square feet or 1,458 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 470 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

High recoil, hulls are overloaded...
But, that's Yubari...

Jef  ;)

[Logi]

I feel this Yubari version is better:

Yubari, Japanese Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   7,500 t light; 7,832 t standard; 8,683 t normal; 9,364 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (459.32 ft / 459.32 ft) x 57.09 ft x (22.97 / 24.32 ft)
   (140.00 m / 140.00 m) x 17.40 m  x (7.00 / 7.41 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 264.55lbs / 120.00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,526 lbs / 1,146 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   200.13 ft / 61.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.92" / 125 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.06" / 230 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,851 shp / 14,809 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,532 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   449 - 584

Cost:
   £0.730 million / $2.919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 585 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 585 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 2,495 tons, 28.7 %
      - Belts: 1,189 tons, 13.7 %
      - Armament: 463 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 761 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,638 tons, 18.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,776 tons, 32.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,183 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,163 lbs / 4,610 Kg = 41.6 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.505 / 0.514
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  18.70 ft / 5.70 m,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  16.73 ft / 5.10 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.72 ft / 5.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,545 Square feet or 1,630 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Logi]

Since the Nowaki-class Destroyer production ends at 20 units, by the time turbine tech finishes a new fleet destroyer design will be needed.

Kaba (樺), Japanese Destroyer laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   500 t light; 533 t standard; 655 t normal; 752 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (278.87 ft / 278.87 ft) x 20.01 ft x (8.86 / 9.80 ft)
   (85.00 m / 85.00 m) x 6.10 m  x (2.70 / 2.99 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      Weight of broadside 180 lbs / 82 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,700 shp / 6,490 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 219 tons (90% coal)

Trial Speed: 28.50 kts

Complement:
   64 - 84

Cost:
   £0.076 million / $0.302 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 37 tons, 5.7 %
      - Guns: 37 tons, 5.7 %
   Machinery: 342 tons, 52.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 115 tons, 17.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 155 tons, 23.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     126 lbs / 57 Kg = 2.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.464 / 0.481
   Length to Beam Ratio: 13.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.53 ft / 2.60 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m,  7.87 ft / 2.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.93 ft / 2.42 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,601 Square feet or 335 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 43 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 98 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.76
      - Overall: 0.52
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

3 x 1 45cm TT rotating centerline, with one reload

[Logi]

I tried a Tin-Can scout cruiser. Cb is quite low, about the same as Tone (1907) and Chikuma-class (1912) which had 0.482 and 0.479 Cb respectively.

KJ5000, Japanese Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   5,470 t light; 5,802 t standard; 6,383 t normal; 6,848 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.70 ft / 393.70 ft) x 56.76 ft x (20.83 / 21.95 ft)
   (120.00 m / 120.00 m) x 17.30 m  x (6.35 / 6.69 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 264.55lbs / 120.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.18lbs / 24.12kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 3,088 lbs / 1,401 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   311.68 ft / 95.00 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm     82.02 ft / 25.00 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.47" / 12 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.47" / 12 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,035 shp / 14,946 Kw = 22.80 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,046 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   356 - 464

Cost:
   £0.685 million / $2.739 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 683 tons, 10.7 %
      - Guns: 683 tons, 10.7 %
   Armour: 965 tons, 15.1 %
      - Belts: 394 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armament: 187 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 363 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,653 tons, 25.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,122 tons, 33.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 913 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 47 tons, 0.7 %
      - On freeboard deck: 47 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,568 lbs / 2,072 Kg = 18.7 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.480 / 0.489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m,  14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.67 ft / 4.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,622 Square feet or 1,358 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 536 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight (47t):
   25 tons - Long Range Wireless Set
   12 tons - 4 x 1 45cm rotating side TT with 2 reloads
   10 tons - Reserve Weight

[Jefgte]

4T2x200 in A-B--X-Y disposition, B & X superfiring.
On a 120m hull !!!

=> Cramped turrets installation...

[snip]

I think the mix of 200mm and 152mm is a bit much. Maybe a mono 152mm battery?

[Walter]

Cb is quite low, about the same as Tone (1907) and Chikuma-class (1912) which had 0.482 and 0.479 Cb respectively.

You might say 'quite low' for this one but it is not as 'quite low' as the 0.5 on your 13,500 and 17,600 ton battlecruiser designs. Compared to those, the one of KJ5000 is quite acceptable... but...

4T2x200 in A-B--X-Y disposition, B & X superfiring.
On a 120m hull !!!

=> Cramped turrets installation...

... the 20cm turret+barbette armament might actually demand a higher Cb due to the short length of the hull. Even if SS does not indicate it, the very low Cb could mean that the hull forward and aft are too narrow for the twin turrets. I could be wrong, but on the other hand you compare it with Tone and Chikuma, both slightly lighter than your design but neither of them used turreted main guns + barbettes, superfiring guns, twin mounted guns or 20cm guns. Chikuma, the closest comparison to your design, had 8x1 152mm guns and was almost 25 meters longer than your design. Looking at the side and top view of the Chikuma, I would say that 4x2 200mm, 6x1 152mm, 6x1 120mm and 4 x 1 45cm rotating TTs will not fit. I do not think that the additional few meters in beam on your design can compensate for the lost length when it comes to deck space.

I really get the impression that the 200mm guns are deliberately put on the design so the BB/AC Architecture tech can be applied to justify the superfiring turrets and twin mounts on this ship which really is just a light cruiser especially with the on deck TTs.

Looking around a bit, the closest I could find something remotely similar to this in this era (1900-1910) is the Nishin which was about 2000 tons heavier, 9 meters shorter, 1.6 meters wider, looks to have a much higher Cb and 2x2 200mm guns. Looking at the Nishin picture to imagine that 4x2 200mm layout, I would say "no, not really...". The few ships I quickly could find that did have something like a 4x2 200mm layout were much heavier, much more modern and much, much longer.

[Logi]

Jeftge:

4T2x200 in A-B--X-Y disposition, B & X superfiring.
On a 120m hull !!!

=> Cramped turrets installation...

I agree, I'll post my slightly larger version (KJ6000)

Snip:

I think the mix of 200mm and 152mm is a bit much. Maybe a mono 152mm battery?

I was a little concerned that it would be considered too advanced. There is also the fact that 120mm and 75mm have very similar RoF whereas 152mm has half the ROF of both.

Walter:

You might say 'quite low' for this one but it is not as 'quite low' as the 0.5 on your 13,500 and 17,600 ton battlecruiser designs. Compared to those, the one of KJ5000 is quite acceptable... but...

Most Japanese cruisers had low Cbs....

Tenryu was 0.502
Kuma was 0.505
Nagara was 0.507
Sendai was 0.507
Suzuya/Kumano was 0.384 after reconstruction
Agano was 0.512
Oyodo was 0.523
Katori was 0.516

A funny thing - I calculated a Cb of 0.436 for the Pensacola cruisers with 0.555 Cb at full load. Then again, they were very top-heavy ships.

I really get the impression that the 200mm guns are deliberately put on the design so the BB/AC Architecture tech can be applied to justify the superfiring turrets and twin mounts on this ship which really is just a light cruiser especially with the on deck TTs.

You're battling phantoms here Walter. In fact the deck TTs were added as an afterthought because I remember not having torpedoes was a critique in past designs. The 200mm guns were the first thing added followed by 20,000 shp worth of engines, everything else was an afterthought, including the dimensions and armor.

In fact I ran several variations from 5,000t @ 118m, 22.3kn to 6,000t @ 135m, 22.8kn and additional armor.

To be fair I don't see much point to having TTs just yet. Torpedoes are far too short ranged and slow at the moment to be worthwhile. After all, in this time period (1905-ish) the USN contemplated actually removing all the 5" secondaries on their ships because torpedoes weren't a threat. They were to add armor on the ships in exchange.

Looking around a bit, the closest I could find something remotely similar to this in this era (1900-1910) is the Nishin which was about 2000 tons heavier, 9 meters shorter, 1.6 meters wider, looks to have a much higher Cb and 2x2 200mm guns.

Well we don't need to rely on something as handwavy as "looking", we can just calculate it.
Nisshin has Loa 111.73m, Bwl 18.71m, and Dm 7.35m with 7,700t. Calculated Cb is 0.501

Given minor discrepancies due appendages and different drafts, I'ld say +/- 0.05 on that Cb.

Looking at the Nishin picture to imagine that 4x2 200mm layout, I would say "no, not really...".

My design is about 9m longer or roughly 30ft. Can you fit two more 8" turrets in 30ft of space? Not really I suppose.

The two-gun 8"/50 on the Country-class was 20 ft and 6 in. The superstructure would have to be shrunk by roughly 10-15ft, so 3-4.5m.
So assuming superstructure is the only constraint, removing a pair of secondaries. My design has 12 total secondaries, the Nishin has 14x6" and 10x3".... so it already has 1 less pair (not including the additional 10x3" on the Nishin).

The few ships I quickly could find that did have something like a 4x2 200mm layout were much heavier, much more modern and much, much longer.

A lot of the difference can be attributed to differences in speed and armor.

The machinery space required for the other 4x2 200mm cruiser which generally had ~32kn speed is much larger. Not to mention this is forces a lengthening of the hull that isn't mitigated by better engine tech. As speed rises, the length of the hull has to rise too to keep the propulsive efficiency from the natural hull speed. Better engines alone can't handle the drop in efficiency.

For example if I bump the engine year to 1930 and speed to 32.5 with all oil-firing boilers, SS says the required machinery and magazine space is 134.75m. That is compared to the current 94.7m. As I lengthen the ship while keeping the same Cb, the machinery space required drops until the ship is ~145m long where it stays pretty constant thereafter.

[Logi]

Here is the larger variant which is fine IMO. Japan will soon have multiple Type 2 docks so the 120m restriction will be much less of an issue.

KJ6000, Japanese Light Cruiser laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,303 t standard; 6,925 t normal; 7,423 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (439.63 ft / 439.63 ft) x 54.79 ft x (20.67 / 21.77 ft)
   (134.00 m / 134.00 m) x 16.70 m  x (6.30 / 6.63 m)

Armament:
      8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 264.55lbs / 120.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,847 lbs / 1,291 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   314.96 ft / 96.00 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   1.50" / 38 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.47" / 12 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.47" / 12 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,990 shp / 14,913 Kw = 22.80 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,120 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   379 - 493

Cost:
   £0.691 million / $2.766 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 642 tons, 9.3 %
      - Guns: 642 tons, 9.3 %
   Armour: 1,414 tons, 20.4 %
      - Belts: 699 tons, 10.1 %
      - Armament: 204 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 489 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,649 tons, 23.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,260 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 925 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 34 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 34 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,612 lbs / 2,546 Kg = 23.0 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.487 / 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  13.78 ft / 4.20 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.48 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,859 Square feet or 1,473 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 519 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight (34t):
   25 tons - Long Range Wireless Set
   9 tons - 4 x 1 45cm rotating side TT with reloads

[snip]

Just for the sake of theorycrafting, what does this sort of ship look like with a 152mm battery? My thought is, if you are looking for a tin-can scout cruiser that the 152mm battery might allow you to make it lighter and faster. The 200mm armed variants feel more like a small AC then a tin-can scout.

[Walter]

Most Japanese cruisers had low Cbs....

I think that all of those you listed were light cruisers. Also the oldest in that list is the 1917 Tenryu.

But I was referring to the 0.5 of the Katori/Satsuma and Tsukuba. Compared to those two sims, there really is no need for you to be worried about the KJ5000's Cb being 'quite low'. Of course, like I said, I doubt that kind of Cb would allow for that main gun layout...

You're battling phantoms here Walter.

Maybe... and maybe it is not your intention, but the fact is that when you remove the 200mm guns and you go for an all 152mm gun layout, you will need the 1910 light cruiser architecture tech to be able to use twin mounts for the 152mm guns... Thinking about it now, I would like to know which ship was the first to utilize a 4x2 layout like that with guns around 8" and how big the smallest ship was with that layout. I know Bluecher had a 6x2 layout but 4 of those were wing turrets (no superfiring) and it is on a vessel that is some 10,000 tons heavier than your KJ5000.

In fact the deck TTs were added as an afterthought because I remember not having torpedoes was a critique in past designs.

The thing is that from what I can remember from looking around at older ships, BBs and ACs tended to have the TTs either below the waterline or in the hull above the waterline. Not on deck. While there is nothing in the rules regarding that, I really feel that with ships, either the one tech should be applied to it or the other tech. Not both.

Well we don't need to rely on something as handwavy as "looking", we can just calculate it.
Nisshin has Loa 111.73m, Bwl 18.71m, and Dm 7.35m with 7,700t. Calculated Cb is 0.501

Given minor discrepancies due appendages and different drafts, I'ld say +/- 0.05 on that Cb.

The Kasuga pic suggests higher than that...

Japanese wiki indicates that the waterline length (the one you should enter in SS) of Kasuga/Nishin is 104.97 meters. It also indicates that the 7.3 meters depth is full load, not normal displacement...

Throwing the various stuff into SS, I get 104.97x18.71x7.09m with Cb 0.548 for a normal displacement of 7,699 tons. If I were to use the full load displacement figure (8100 tons) as baseline for the sim, Cb will go up to 0.555.

I think that that is a lot more than +/- 0.05...

So assuming superstructure is the only constraint, removing a pair of secondaries. My design has 12 total secondaries, the Nishin has 14x6" and 10x3".... so it already has 1 less pair (not including the additional 10x3" on the Nishin).

The thing is that all those secondaries are on the beams of the ship. Removing a few there does nothing for your centerline space which is where your 200mm guns are and which is where the space is really needed.

Looking at the pic, don't think that the 4x2 will work on that lenght, unless you really want to squash the superstructure together in the center of the ship.



One thing regarding your bigger version... seems a bit expensive for what is supposed to be a scout cruiser... I think even the KJ5000 is too expensive for a scout cruiser... For a scout cruiser, you want something that is small, fast and cheap to produce and replace.

[Logi]

Walter:

I think that all of those you listed were light cruisers. Also the oldest in that list is the 1917 Tenryu.

Suzuya and Kumano were Mogami-class ships which were most definitely Heavy Cruisers....

I didn't mention any of the older Japanese ships because I didn't have a book on hand about them. (Also I gave Tone and Chikuma earlier already and they were older than the Tenryu class) The book I do have is on Japanese cruisers of WW2 and it does give me a firm block coefficient, longitudinal strength, and other details I can't calculate that accurately. The book literally goes Tone -> Chikuma -> Tenryu -> Kuma -> Nagara -> etc.

The thing is that from what I can remember from looking around at older ships, BBs and ACs tended to have the TTs either below the waterline or in the hull above the waterline. Not on deck. While there is nothing in the rules regarding that, I really feel that with ships, either the one tech should be applied to it or the other tech. Not both.

Doesn't really matter to me since it's just a matter of changing the text. I don't intend to relying on torpedoes anyways TBH. My opinion for the period torpedoes is the same as the historical USN.

The Kasuga pic suggests higher than that...

Japanese wiki indicates that the waterline length (the one you should enter in SS) of Kasuga/Nishin is 104.97 meters. It also indicates that the 7.3 meters depth is full load, not normal displacement...

That's the issue with "suggests higher than that". Looks are deceiving. Bismarck has 0.550 (if I remember right) which is lower than many heavy cruisers for example.

The Japanese wiki too is not entirely accurate. We don't know what conditions that was calculated. Was it effective? Full load? etc. I admit I also used the english wiki because I didn't feel the issue was enough to warrant further inquiry. Here is a better source:

Engineering, Volume 79, pg 505 - an old 1905 book (it's also an google ebook) gives the following figures for the Kasuga.
Length Overall: 111.73 m
Length Waterline: 108.88 m
Length Perpendiculars: 104.8m
Breadth outside armor: 18.71m
Moulded depth: 12.1m

Draught on trials:
   forward - 6.6m
   mean - 7.1m
   aft - 7.6m

Displacement on trial: 7,400t

Therefore for these values, calculated Cb is 0.512
Slightly more than +/- 0.05 but still roughly in the same ballpark.

The Japanese wiki was probably using Lpp.... which is fine if you're designing merchant ships but not fine for warships. SS goes by Lwl so SS's Cb also comes from Lwl, not Lpp. There's no need jump through such hoops to calculate Cb, it's one of the simplest dimensionless coefficients around:

Cb = Disp / (Lwl * Bwl * Dm)
Lwl = length waterline
Bwl = beam waterline
Dm = draught moulded (careful this is not depth of the hull which refers to draught + freeboard)

In the case of merchant ships, use Lpp instead. But if its a merchant ship, Cb is also not what anyone looks at.

One thing regarding your bigger version... seems a bit expensive for what is supposed to be a scout cruiser... I think even the KJ5000 is too expensive for a scout cruiser... For a scout cruiser, you want something that is small, fast and cheap to produce and replace.

There's no scout cruisers smaller than 5,000t which can manage >23 kn without being completely worthless in both armament and armor.

If that is the case, it would be plain better to use a destroyer.

Snip:

Just for the sake of theorycrafting, what does this sort of ship look like with a 152mm battery? My thought is, if you are looking for a tin-can scout cruiser that the 152mm battery might allow you to make it lighter and faster. The 200mm armed variants feel more like a small AC then a tin-can scout.

24kn and 4,300t light... that's after going to 4x2 152mm and removing the 152mm secondaries.

Saving 1,700t in exchange for being completely worthless in armament and armor? No thanks.
In exchange 28% reduction in weight and speed going to 24kn from 22.8kn (5% increase) you go from 1,291 kg broadside to 449 kg broadside (65% reduction) with armor going from 125mm to 75mm (40% reduction).... And that is comparing against the 6,000t variant.

It's not like the weight reduction is by choice either... more weight is impossible stay under the 20,000 shp limit (mixed and recip does unspeakable things to strength) and less weight doesn't give enough strength even for the minuscule armor and armament they have.

[snip]

If scout is the goal, the cost savings and higher speed might be worth it. Let me post what I have for the USN's first turbine ship when I am on my work computer tomorrow.