NPC & Player Nation Status

[Walter]

United States
Liberia - 1820 onwards for freed slaves.

You forgot to add that it became independent in July 26, 1847.

[Kaiser Kirk]

United States
Liberia - 1820 onwards for freed slaves.

You forgot to add that it became independent in July 26, 1847.

I hit the "tired, just a bit more to go" stage and kinda skimped on the last ones.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Here's my first *crude* stab at a 1870 Africa on our map

[Tanthalas]

your about the same place I am Kaiser, although im waiting till I find out if I get a Unified Netherlands before I go much further, since my data sources say the Dutch Gold Coast sale didnt happen OTL till 1872 (there was a fort swap with GB in 1868/1869 could that be what you are thinking of?).  Not that it realy matters, the Dutch "Colony" was not very profitable after the end of the slave trade (esentialy all they used it for was recruiting soldiers)

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm just going from Wiki.
The turnover happened in 1872 - " On 6 April 1872, the Dutch Gold Coast was, in accordance with the Anglo-Dutch Treaties of 1870–71, ceremonially ceded to the United Kingdom."

Looking a little closer, while the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1870 ...as it's referred to somewhere else, made me think it was..well, 1870. It was started 1870, finished 1871. Sloppy of me, but I was tired. "In February of that year [1871], a treaty had been signed with the United Kingdom, under which terms the whole colony was to be ceded for a sum of 46,939.62 Dutch guilders."

So 1870, no the treaty hasn't been signed, just in talks.
However the 1867 convention trading territory & Forts had been signed, "The trade proved a disaster for the Dutch, as their long-standing alliance with the mighty Ashanti tribe did not fare well with the population around the new forts assigned to them.", looking at the middle of the Dutch Gold Coast Article, it looks like they were not doing well in the war with the locals and that commerce had shut down.  The Brits won in 1873.

[Tanthalas]

Oh For Sure =P I was just being a stickler for details  :P Since it isnt my Country yet (and who knows may never be) I cant officialy have a posistion (outside if it is, it would be somthing for me and Draman to discuss, who knows maybe this time the sale goes the other way).

I'm just going from Wiki.
The turnover happened in 1872 - " On 6 April 1872, the Dutch Gold Coast was, in accordance with the Anglo-Dutch Treaties of 1870–71, ceremonially ceded to the United Kingdom."

Looking a little closer, while the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1870 ...as it's referred to somewhere else, made me think it was..well, 1870. It was started 1870, finished 1871. Sloppy of me, but I was tired. "In February of that year [1871], a treaty had been signed with the United Kingdom, under which terms the whole colony was to be ceded for a sum of 46,939.62 Dutch guilders."

So 1870, no the treaty hasn't been signed, just in talks.
However the 1867 convention trading territory & Forts had been signed, "The trade proved a disaster for the Dutch, as their long-standing alliance with the mighty Ashanti tribe did not fare well with the population around the new forts assigned to them.", looking at the middle of the Dutch Gold Coast Article, it looks like they were not doing well in the war with the locals and that commerce had shut down.  The Brits won in 1873.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I still would have preferred to get the information correct  the first time I looked at it :)

[Tanthalas]

Totaly understandable, I get kind of OCD about data sources myself.  ;)

I still would have preferred to get the information correct  the first time I looked at it :)

[Darman]

I'd love to have Natal but my understanding was that it is still independent in this timeline. 

[Tanthalas]

I have data sources that go both ways... Although Wikipedia (our all purpose mostly accurate source) lists it as a Crown Colony Circa 1843 (it even had a Special Commissioner one mr Henry Cloete at that time).  Next change in its status is 1897 when it Anexed Zululand from that point on no changes untill 1910.

I'd love to have Natal but my understanding was that it is still independent in this timeline.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Looking for a non-Wiki source, I searched Natal, Boer, History.
That gave me this source : http://www.southafrica-travel.net/history/eh_natal.htm

... not until 1823 did a real settlement start to develop. In 1835, Port Natal was renamed Durban after the then Governor of the Cape Colony, Sir Benjamin Durban. Life in the small harbour town was very precarious. The Zulus regarded Natal as their own territory and merely tolerated the white settlers, because the port was useful to them as a trading post.

When the Voortrekkers came to Natal in 1836, and fierce battles with the Zulus were on the daily agenda, Durban was also frequently threatened by attacks. After the defeat of the Zulus in the Battle of Blood River, there was peace for a while, but soon the British and the Voortrekkers started to fight for supremacy over Natal. Ultimately, the bitter conflicts were decided in favour of the British. In 1844, Natal became a Crown Colony and the Voortrekkers retreated.

In 1879, the British laid claims on the whole of Zululand and gave Zulu King Cetshwayo a practically unacceptable ultimatum.

The result of that is...yes Natal is British, and we need to winnow out an independent Zululand in that area.

I'm wondering if the design goal of the reset and race for Africa might be better served by moving the African set-point further back in time.

Moving it back to 1800 would eliminate : French Djibouti, US Liberia, Transvaal, Orange Free State, Natal (and 2nd Anglo-Boer war), French Algeria, possibly French Coromos, and return Cape Colony to the Dutch. Might knock off some other spots too.
Though I should note- the more open space, the more chance my nation, Italy, will be able to grab something when we can afford to.

[Tanthalas]

While I Definetly wouldn't object to setting Africa to 1800  :P but I think our PoD is mostly OK honestly.  A Date has to be picked (if we arn't just going with our start point ala 1900), and no matter what date we pick it wont be "fair" to someone...   

Looking for a non-Wiki source, I searched Natal, Boer, History.
That gave me this source : http://www.southafrica-travel.net/history/eh_natal.htm

... not until 1823 did a real settlement start to develop. In 1835, Port Natal was renamed Durban after the then Governor of the Cape Colony, Sir Benjamin Durban. Life in the small harbour town was very precarious. The Zulus regarded Natal as their own territory and merely tolerated the white settlers, because the port was useful to them as a trading post.

When the Voortrekkers came to Natal in 1836, and fierce battles with the Zulus were on the daily agenda, Durban was also frequently threatened by attacks. After the defeat of the Zulus in the Battle of Blood River, there was peace for a while, but soon the British and the Voortrekkers started to fight for supremacy over Natal. Ultimately, the bitter conflicts were decided in favour of the British. In 1844, Natal became a Crown Colony and the Voortrekkers retreated.

In 1879, the British laid claims on the whole of Zululand and gave Zulu King Cetshwayo a practically unacceptable ultimatum.

The result of that is...yes Natal is British, and we need to winnow out an independent Zululand in that area.

I'm wondering if the design goal of the reset and race for Africa might be better served by moving the African set-point further back in time.

Moving it back to 1800 would eliminate : French Djibouti, US Liberia, Transvaal, Orange Free State, Natal (and 2nd Anglo-Boer war), French Algeria, possibly French Coromos, and return Cape Colony to the Dutch. Might knock off some other spots too.
Though I should note- the more open space, the more chance my nation, Italy, will be able to grab something when we can afford to.

[Logi]

I have amended the 'Starting Information' thread to include the starting Pop, IC, and BP of Italy, Unified Netherlands, Austria-Hungary, Spain, Portugal, Sweden-Norway, Persia, Argentina, Brasil, and Mexico.

I will work on the Africa map issue over the weekend.

[Logi]

Here's the updated map with Africa corrected. Let me know if they're any mistakes.

[Jefgte]

Please, Madagascar is french.
pop 2.25 in the report.

Jef  ;)