Army Set-up Discussions

[Walter]

There is a little bit of good news for you, snip. You do not need to worry about the Filipno stuff.  :)

[snip]

There is a little bit of good news for you, snip. You do not need to worry about the Filipno stuff.  :)

Fair, tho most of that would have been construed after game start.

[Darman]

Narragansett Bay, 11th out of 27 on the Endicott Board's priority list, might give you a good idea of a middle-of-the-road arrangement. 

(all of these are pre-1900, there are more guns emplaced post-1900)

Fort Adams
16 12" mortars
2 10" disappearing mounts
2 4.7" parapet mounts

Fort Wetherill
2 12" barbette mounts
2 3" parapet mounts

Fort Greble
8 12" mortars
3 10" disappearing
2 3" pillar?  (maybe pedestal?)

Fort Kearny
none prior to 1900


Post-1900 (prior to 1910) (additional guns)
Fort Adams
3 6" pedestal 1904
2 3" pedestal 1903

Fort Wetherill
2 12" disappearing 1902
3 10" disappearing 1901
3 6" disappearing 1903
2 6" pedestal 1901
2 3" pedestal 1901

Fort Getty
3 12" disappearing 1901
2 6" pedestal 1901
2 3" pedestal 1903

Fort Greble
3 6" pedestal 1903

Fort Kearny (currently used to store chemicals at URI)
6 6" disappearing 1904
2 3" pedestal 1904


Sources:
http://fortwiki.com/Fort_Wiki
Schroder, Walter K., Defenses of Narragansett Bay in World War II

[Darman]

British Army (not counting the Indian Army or Colonial Forces)

Ireland
3rd Infantry Division (Royal Irish Rifles, Wiltshire Regt, Royal Scots, Royal Irish Regt, Northumberland Fusliers)

Scotland
No garrison

England
Household Cavalry Brigade
1st Cavalry Division (Queen's Bays, 5th Dragoon Guards, 11th Hussars, 4th Dragoon Guards, Royal Irish Lancers)
2nd Cavalry Division (Royals Scots Greys, 20th Hussars, 4th Hussars, 16th Lancers, Carabiniers)
Guards Infantry Division (Grenadier Guards, Coldstream Guards, Scots Guards, Irish Guards, Welsh Guards)
1st Infantry Division (Black Watch, Cameron Highlanders, Royal Munster Fusiliers, Royal Sussex Regt, King's Royal Rifle Corps)
2nd Infantry Division (Ox & Bucks Light Infantry, Hertfordshire Regt, Highland Light Infantry, Connaught Rangers, King's Liverpool Regt)

India
4th Infantry Division (Royal Warwickshire Regt, Royal Irish Fusiliers, Somerset Light Infantry, King's Own Lancaster Regt, Highland Regt)
5th Infantry Division (Royal West Kent Regt, Devonshire Regt, East Surrey Regt, Norfolk Regt, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry)
6th Infantry Division (The Buffs, Shropshire Light Infantry, Leicestershire Regt, Royal Fusiliers, Sherwood Foresters)

Colonial Garrison Duties:
Royal Marines (1 brigade) (Leeward Is, Windward Is, Indian Ocean Territory, South Atlantic Territory, Pacific Territory)
The Rifle Brigade (Ceylon, Burma, Jamaica, Gold Coast, North Borneo)

Total
2.2 Cavalry Divisions (2 divisions, 1 brigade)
7.2 Infantry Divisions (7 divisions, 1 brigade)
0.2 Marine Divisions (1 brigade)

[Darman]

If an army has units in garrison, and about 10% home on leave at any given time, should it be an "active" unit with 50% on leave and 50% available, or a "mobilized" unit, with a theoretical 100% availability?

[Darman]

Proposed Indian Army

217,000 men historically, plus reserves and "auxiliaries".   

3 divisions of cavalry (37,500 men) (1 mobilized, 2 active)
7 divisions of infantry (175,000 men) (3 mobilized, 4 active)
1 brigade of infantry (5,000 men) (1 mobilized)
yields 217,500 men total

Auxiliaries (armies of the various Indian Princes): 90,000 historically, 1/3 being cavalry.  All are reserve status. 
2 divisions of infantry (50,000 men)
2 divisions of cavalry (25,000 men)
75,000 men total

Other Auxiliaries: 76,000 (divided amongst 31,000 British Volunteers, 18,000 native police/constabulary, 18,000 native imperial service troops (1/2 infantry, 1/2 cavalry), and 5,000 NorthWest Frontier Irregular Force.) 
2 infantry division (50,000 men) (reserve status)
2 mountain infantry brigades (5,000 men) (mobilized on the N-W Frontier)
3 cavalry brigades (7,500 men) (reserve status)
62,500 men total

[Darman]

Out of curiousity does anybody feel it absolutely necessary to be able to build an 18-citadel fortress?  Or can we settle for 6-citadel fortresses as the maximum?  Just to cut down a little bit on options in the rules. 

[The Rock Doctor]

I see no harm in leaving it as an option, even if I think it's utter overkill.

[snip]

I see no harm in leaving it as an option, even if I think it's utter overkill.

Honestly, I think it is in there more to cover things like fort rings around a city.

[miketr]

This is sorta random stream of thought type stuff here.

Historic German Army Corps Map
http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/army/mediaarmy/mapcorps.jpg

XX and XXI Corps were added in the 1912 Army Expansion.
So the German Army has
19 Army Corps in the Prussian System
Imperial Guard Corps
3 Bavarian Corps

For a total 23 Active Army Corps
I don't believe that the 1912 expansion added any reserve corps so the WW1 number is good so 17 Reserve Corps.
Plus
The Landwehrkorps
There was also the Ersatzkorps which is made up by taking various reserve, landwehr and other garrison units and sticking them all together.  It had no garrison depot but the Germans always planned to use it in their war plans but it took time to pull it together.

The Marinekorps was made up of single division of naval infantry until some months into WW1 a new division was raised.  So I don't think I can make a good case for it.  Or perhaps count these last two corps as one.  For a total of 19 Reserve Corps.

There were 10 cavalry Divisions counting the guard cavalry.  Call it 5 Cavalry Corps?  No reserve cavalry.  Only a couple of cav regiments were formed between 1900 and 1914.  Maybe have the Maybe have the Marinekorps be a reserve light infantry instead?

So totals are now:
23 Active Infantry
18 Reserve Infantry
5 Active Cav
1 Reserve Naval Infantry

Forts I will have to do some digging on. Ditto the siege train.

Following are good web sources on Imperial German Army
http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/page_9.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20050205193544/http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~maampo/militaer/milindex.html

Question any limitations on number of reserve units compared to active?

This should be enough to start debate.

[Guinness]

See and Snip thought my army was big at 30 corps with ~ 16 in reserve.  8)

[miketr]

Russian Army in 1914 was stupid large 1,300,000 peace time; war strength some place well north of 2,000,000 million.  I would have to check but they had something over 40 corps.  Germany had 700,000 peace time in 1914?  Again would have to check. 

One of the problems of Navalism is that quality is very abstracted to say the least.

In WW1 Germans time and time again were able to defeat larger Russian armies.  In terms of gear at start of the war the two sides were actually fairly close.  Both used magazine bolt action rifles, belt feed machine guns and artillery with pneumatic recoil.  Germans had more heavy artillery but they had more than everyone.  Issue was even despite the various reforms since 1905 the Russian army had all sorts of issues.  Once the war started the Russian economy couldn't keep up with demand and then the cities started to starve as the railnet became over loaded and inflation.  Followed by revolution and collapse.

If I recall the old economics I really tend to doubt I can support this mass hoard.  Let alone fight it.  All I will say is I am fairly certain that the numbers are close to what is historic.  What the game will allow is something else all together.

Michael

[snip]

Question any limitations on number of reserve units compared to active?

Per the tech here.
1895: Can maintain one reserve unit per 2 active strength units

This is what must be met at game start.

[Darman]

My one comment so far is that you may want to look into manpower figures and work backwards from there rather than from historic corps, because the exact composition of an army corps changes over time.  And we're also going to use 25,000/12,500 man divisions as the basis for our formulas.  Said divisions are roughly USA Army-sized divisions from WW1. 

[Walter]

And we're also going to use 25,000/12,500 man divisions as the basis for our formulas.

I thought it was just 25,000 with 1/5 division being a brigade and 2 divisions being a corps. That was one reason why I went from half divisions to 2, 3 and 5 brigade units.