Army Set-up Discussions

[miketr]

Random thoughts on which cities in Germany are fortified

Metz and Straßburg in the west should have fortress of some size.
Königsberg and Posen in the east is also fortified.

I will check my books when I get home as to which other cities in Germany had fortress troops.  I assume Berlin did but don't know for sure.

Heligoland is a major coast fortress.

Michael

[Logi]

And we're also going to use 25,000/12,500 man divisions as the basis for our formulas.

I thought it was just 25,000 with 1/5 division being a brigade and 2 divisions being a corps. That was one reason why I went from half divisions to 2, 3 and 5 brigade units.

Walter is correct.

[Darman]

I thought that Specialist units were half the strength of regular infantry?  Or am I misremembering? 

[Walter]

Well, that was an idea but in the end it was decided we'd stick with the 25,000 baseline division strength and show the differences in the units with different cost and different combat rating. If you want to use smaller units, you can do the same as what I did and use 2 or 3 brigade units.

[miketr]

My digging around for German forts will have to think on how to present this in the system

Festung Straßburg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_Bavarian_Reserve_Division_%28German_Empire%29
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fburg#Im_Deutschen_Reich

Modern Forts built 1870's?
Rebuilt 1890's

Festung Metz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Reserve_Division_%28German_Empire%29
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festung_Metz

Modern Forts Built 1870's
Rebuilt 1890's


Festung Thorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toru%C5%84_Fortress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35th_Reserve_Division_%28German_Empire%29
System of forts build 1870 to 90's

Festung Königsberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigsberg_fortifications
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortifikationsbauten_Königsberg
Updated 1874-1885


Festung Posen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozna%C5%84_Fortress

Updated repeatedly BIG

Festung Graudenz
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grudziądz#Festung_Graudenz
Small fort updated 1889-1905

[miketr]

Name	Type	Tech	Size	New?	Location	Status
Gardekorps	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		m
Bayerisches-Armeekorps I	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		m
Armeekorps I	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps II	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps III	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps IV	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps V	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps VI	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps VII	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Armeekorps VIII	Infantry	1895	50,000	n		a
Kavallerie-Korps I	Cavalry	1895	25,000	n		m
Kavallerie-Korps II	Cavalry	1895	25,000	n		a
Marinekorps	Specialist	1895	25,000	n		m
Bayerisches-Reserve-Armeekorps I	Infantry	1880	50,000	n		r
Reserve-Armeekorps I	Infantry	1880	50,000	n		r
Reserve-Armeekorps II	Infantry	1880	50,000	n		r
Reserve-Armeekorps III	Infantry	1880	50,000	n		r
Reserve-Armeekorps IV	Infantry	1880	50,000	n		r
Reserve-Kavallerie-Korps I	Cavalry	1880	25,000	n		r

Total Budget Cost 9.91
Active
10 Corps & 3 Specialists
Reserve
5 Corps and 1 Specialist

[Kaiser Kirk]

Random thoughts on which cities in Germany are fortified

Metz and Straßburg in the west should have fortress of some size.
Königsberg and Posen in the east is also fortified.

I will check my books when I get home as to which other cities in Germany had fortress troops.  I assume Berlin did but don't know for sure.

Heligoland is a major coast fortress.

Michael

Check out Fort de Mutzig on wiki.  It's one of a ring around Strausberg. There is also a decent article about Fortifications of Metz.
There's also the older fortresses of the German Confederation - Ulm, Rastaat, which were still active - check Fortresses of the German Confederation.
There is also Grauerort Fortress, Koblenz Fortress, and Konigstien Fortress among others.

[miketr]

I found a book that has some good detail in terms of places to look.

Armed Strength of German Empire (1888)
http://books.google.com/books?id=lb9BAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA58&ots=fVsP7jXUGS&dq

After reading the fortress section my list looks like the following.

Name	Size	Tech
Straßburg	12	1895
Metz	12	1895
Thorn	12	1895
Königsberg	12	1880
Posen	12	1895
Graudenz	3	1895
Danzig	6	1880
Spandau	1	1880
Küstrin	6	1880
Mainz	6	1880
Cologne	6	1880
Coblenz	3	1880

[Darman]

Question unrelated to the current topic of the German army and fortifications: can we pay for additional formations beyond that which is perceived as rational/logical for the time period?  I.e., in case I, as Greater Britain, perceive there to be a greater threat to the Home Islands, I can purchase from my At-Start BP a few divisions or fortresses? 

[Kaiser Kirk]

Italy :

Army
Had  a hard time coming up with any #s for Italian army in this time frame.
Best was 1914, when- if I'm amalgamating info correctly, they had ~750,000 active and ~500,000 reserve.
Then during the war they managed 5-6million poorly trained and motivated troops.

With the current Reserve Tech, I have to have 2 active units for each reserve.
The terrain is rugged, and the overland routes have these "Alps" things as protection from France.
Austria Hungary has a bridgehead at Venezia, but

1% of the population is about 325,000 troops, and I wound up with slightly more.
1 x Alpine Division
1 x Cavalry Division
1 x Marine Division (lowest size available)
7 x Infantry Divisions
All those are active, giving 10 Active formations.
Reserves are
5 x Infantry Divisions

For 15 total units, 5 of which are reserve.

Siege Art
Having no reference other than the fact the Italians built 305mm Howitzers that could be moved about for this purpose,
I assigned 1 x Siege Artillery, 1895

Forts
Italy was fought over for Centuries, and unified in the 1800s, finally in 1870, then fought a war with Austria-Hungary in 1866-67, only taking Rome when the French Garrison was called away during the Franco-Prussian war.  I expect Forts are a natural reflex, but really can't say how many or what generation they were.  For example, I found a quote that Civitavecchia was - as port of rome- one of the most fortified places....by what standard?  The forts of the 1850s were completely obsolete by 1865, much less 1885.

So I assigned light fortifications (3 citadels) about the principle cities and some fortifications (1) about prime harbors.
All are assigned reserve status in peace.

Coastal Artillery
Kinda the same principle as the Forts - I took a blind guess.
Heavy batteries for the biggest ports & bases
Medium batteries for the biggest & medium
Light for the biggest, medium and small ports (those listed in Ports of the World as coaling facilities in Italy).
Only the light ones are Active in peace, all other are reserve.

[Kaiser Kirk]

So this is my proposed army table. Nothing shocking, turned one regular inf unit into light inf.
The Royal Army Regio Esercito

The Royal Army Regio Esercito

Designation	Subunit	Size	Type	Equipment	Arsenal / HQ	Notes
Alipini Divisione		Division	Mountain	1895	Torino (Turin)	Le Penne Nere, est 1872
	10th Alpini	Brigade	Mountain	1895	Mondavi
	11th Alpini	Brigade	Mountain	1895	Bra
	12th Alpini	Brigade	Mountain	1895	Fossano
	13th Alpini	Brigade	Mountain	1895	Torino
	14th Alpini	Brigade	Mountain	1895	Conegliano
Celere Divisione		Division	Cavalry	1895	Florence	Eugenio di Savoia
	10th Cavalleggeri di Saluzzo	Brigade	Cavalry	1895	Milan
	11th Firenze Lancers	Brigade	Cavalry	1895	Florence
	12th Savoia	Brigade	Cavalry	1895	Turin
	13th Novara Lancers	Brigade	Cavalry	1895	Novara
	14th Alessandria	Brigade	Cavalry	1895	Padova
La Marina Divisione		Division	Marine	1895	Brindisi
	10th Serenissima	Brigade	Marine	1895	Venice
	11th San Marco	Brigade	Marine	1895	Brindisi
	12th Fanteria Real Marina	Brigade	Marine	1895	La Spezia
	13th Grado	Brigade	Marine	1895	Castellenmare
	14th Lagunari	Brigade	Marine	1895	Taranto
Bergsaglieri Divisione		Division	Light Infantry	1895	Turin
	10th Grado	Brigade	Light Infantry	1895	Turin
	11th La Marmora	Brigade	Light Infantry	1895	Civitavecchia
	12th Cernaia	Brigade	Light Infantry	1895	Pordenone
	13th Castel di Borgo	Brigade	Light Infantry	1895	Taurino
	14th Palestro	Brigade	Light Infantry	1895	Bologna
I Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Genoa
	10th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Genoa
	11th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Asti
	12th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Turin
	13th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Milan
	14th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Livorno
II Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Venice
	20th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Venice
	21st	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Treviso
	22nd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Padova
	23rd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Ferrara
	24th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Bologna
III Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Bari
	10th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Bari
	11th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Foggia
	12th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Taranto
	13th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	San Severo
	14th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Brindisi
IV Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Rome
	40th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Rome
	41st	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Civatavecchia
	42nd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Terni
	43rd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Albano Laziale
	44th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Pescara
V Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Naples
	50th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Naples
	51st	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Salerno
	52nd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Potenza
	53rd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Regio Calabria
	54th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Caserta
VI Fantera Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Cagliari
	60th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Cagliari
	61st	Brigade	Infantry	1895	La Maddalena
	62nd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Palermo
	63rd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Messina
	64th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Catania
VII Riservare Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Milan
VIII Riservare Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Bologna
IX Riservare Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Florence
X Riservare Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Potenza
XI Riservare Divisione		Division	Infantry	1895	Palermo
	70th -73rd	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Sicily
	74th - 75th	Brigade	Infantry	1895	Sardinia