When restart ?

[Logi]

A more complete list with Pop/IC as well with a pure-untouched China? Slight boost to TUR-CHI-JAP ICs.

Country	Pop	IC	BP
USA	76.5	31	31
ENG	40.5+284.5	18+17	24+4
GER	54.5	16	24
FRA	40.5	12	15
RUS	124.5	16	12
TUR	55	10	9
CHI	400	26	12
JAP	44.1+14.7	8.5+1.5	6

I don't like that at all, seems quite ahistoric to me. I think that we should apply the build rules as given.

Ok.

Well, with that sort of BP I better be ready to kick somebody's but.

Good or bad? Should I adjust up or down? These are just first looks. I also adjusted up the BP of all the nations.

Anything that happens after 1885 can be altered between the players involved. Anything before that is locked, if I am reading Logi's intent of things correctly.

Yes. But if Walter feels really strongly about it, then as an exception perhaps the nations involved and Walter can negotiate the events / terms of treaty publically (for some oversight).

In any case, the Boxer Rebellion may or may not happen depending on the course and nature of our timeline's SJ war.

EDIT: RUS BP 10-->12, FRA BP 12-->15, JAP added KOR portion

[snip]

Good or bad? Should I adjust up or down? These are just first looks. I also adjusted up the BP of all the nations.

I'm not saying I don't like it, just don't expect me to sit idle with it.

[Logi]

That's alright with me.

I think China should also have a Admin- value ---> Mandate of Heaven : [Req] Have not lost historic lands in the last 5 years, no Unequal Treaties signed in last 5 years ... [Eff] Revolt risk is divided by 100.
I know how tired the title sounds but it's the easiest, most recognizable title for the purpose. It represents the nature of China as a Civilization-state and it's difference in state responsibility as compared to the nation-state concept.

[Jefgte]

I note the low BP level for some countries... too low:
France, Russia & Japan.

IMO, Increase them is economical realist
F:15
R:12
J: 10

[Logi]

Japan's industrial power was in reality extremely low, par with Italy. They just made much better use of their resources than the Italians.

Also 1900 --> 1910 had ~3x industrial expansion for Japan.

France & Russia modifications accepted.

[snip]

Question, if we are going from 1890, shouldn't we be getting 1900BPx20, or at least something greater then x3? I cannot come anywhere close to the Navy that blockaded Cuba as historical with only x3.

[Walter]

What? You're telling you can't get it done with 5700 BPs? Oh wait. Wrong calculation.  ;D

[snip]

going with x3 only gives 93BP, which is just enough to cover one less then the historical number of battleships built during the era. Factor in the rest of the needed startup spending (Army, Infrastructure) and it is far to little.

[Logi]

Hm.... based on the portion of navies in 1900 between the nations:

How does:
USA:   300,000t
BRI: 1,080,000t
GER:   360,000t
FRA:   540,000t
RUS:   360,000t

TUR:   300,000t
CHI:   120,000t
JAP:   180,000t

sound?

[snip]

Hm.... based on the portion of navies in 1900 between the nations:

How does:
USA:   300,000t
BRI: 1,080,000t
GER:   360,000t
FRA:   540,000t
RUS:   360,000t

TUR:   300,000t
CHI:   120,000t
JAP:   180,000t

sound?

While that does allow me to fit the historicalish USN, it is overkill for what was around at the time. Why not just use a total BP amount for startup?

[Logi]

The ratios I got were (with GER as base):

USA: 0.83x
BRI:  3.00x
GER: 1.00x
FRA: 1.50x
RUS: 1.00x
JAP:  0.50x

Since the numbers varied, I didn't attach it to BP. What are some numbers you would suggest?

[snip]

I would prefer to tie the startup fleets to the BP value of the startup turns, unless we are assuming that all Infrastructure and Armies are just declared at start? If we are, I am ok with declaring a tonnage limit. I do not have a problem with the posted numbers, just want to ensure that we are remaining constant in how we are handling things that come into existence on turn "0" [All BP-based or All Declared Caps].

[Logi]

My current train of thought is as such:

Naval Infrastructure & Navies are determined via tonnage limit.
All other items (Army, etc) are declared at start.

* I want to avoid the massive non-historical armies that have become a thing in the last restart attempt and I think your restart attempt as well.

[snip]

So we get some proportion of Naval tonnage to spend on infra? What are your thoughts on the numbers? How does tech work here^[1]?

[1]: I would propose that everyone starts with all techs pre-1890 and gains access to the 1891-1897 techs 3 years after there research date. 1898-1899 techs can be declared in progress. 1900+ techs are off limits.

[Darman]

What do you mean by "declared at start"? 

Personally, my armies (British, Colonial, and Indian) are based on historic numbers from 1900, 1903, or the 2nd Boer War.