Techology Discussion

[Walter]

The idea there is that the Morgantown completes in early 1902, so construction is mostly done by the time they catch on.

Doesn't matter, it can even be done when it is completed. like I said, it's more like the Navy does not want to spend the money on altering her. (cause it is going to cost a lot to convert her bacK)

[snip]

Amendment to the amendment. As opposed to "or you must start research of the tech one turn before the ship completes" I think it should be "or you must start research of the tech one turn after construction commences."

[snip]

I would like to propose the following amendments to the naval tech tree. Mostly these are to account for the start of the sim and moving a few bits around for better spacing. Changes in Bold

1890: Engine Year 1890, Simple and Complex Reciprocating Engines.
1895: Engine Year 1900
1902 : Engine year 1905, Max. non-VTE power 5,000 HP/Shaft,
        Direct-drive Turbines
1905: Engine year 1909, Max. non-VTE power 12,000 HP/Shaft
1909: Engine year 1912, Max. non-VTE power 20,000 HP/Shaft
1913: Engine year 1916, Max. non-VTE power 35,000 HP/Shaft
1917: Engine year 1920, Max. non-VTE power 40,000 HP/Shaft, Engine year = year laid down.

To quantify the level available at game start & for pre-start ships.

1880: Main guns in twin turrets, secondaries in casemate
1890: Mixed main armament or AQY with double turrets+casemates
1902: All-big-gun ship with wing turrets OR Superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs)
1905: Improved turret hydraulics, Torpedo Bulkheads, triple turrets
1908: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes
1912: Quadruple turrets, Sloped external belts
1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns

Adds an intermediary level between AQY and improvements to overall technology, while dealing with spacing a bit better. 1902 Level would have both options researchable simultaneously (think 1910 reserves), but you only need one to advance. Also removes a "theory" item from under the Armor tech and sticks it with Architecture, which makes more sense IMO.

Are there any more comments on these changes?

[Walter]

No comments here but one question: 1902 superfiring is for main armament or does it include secondaries as well? I ask since the Henri IV had one superfiring secondary and it was a 1897 ship.

[snip]

No comments here but one question: 1902 superfiring is for main armament or does it include secondaries as well? I ask since the Henri IV had one superfiring secondary and it was a 1897 ship.

I guess we could include weird things like Superfireing secondaries (Restricted Axial Firing Arcs) and Stacked Main Battery turrets (think Kersarge) with the 1890 tech. That would make the tree as follows. Main guns are defined as the largest caliber carried on the ship, intermediary guns are anything between the main caliber and 155mm guns, secondaries are 80-155mm, tertiary are <79mm.

1880: Main guns in twin turrets, secondaries in casemate, tertiary in casemate or deck mounts.
1890: Mixed-caliber main battery (Main+intermediary calibers), Superfiring secondaries (Restricted Axial Firing Arcs) and Stacked Main Battery turrets OR Main caliber battery in AQY. [Pick One Only]
1902: All-big-gun ship with wing turrets OR Superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs) [Pick one or both]
1905: Improved turret hydraulics, independent gun elevation, Torpedo Bulkheads, triple turrets
1908: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes
1912: Quadruple turrets, Sloped external belts
1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns

[Logi]

Amendment to the amendment. As opposed to "or you must start research of the tech one turn before the ship completes" I think it should be "or you must start research of the tech one turn after construction commences."

I don't think I heard any particular disagreement on this point so I've edited it into the OP.
Edit: Maybe I need some rest... that didn't say what I thought it said.

I'm ok with the suggested amendment.

[snip]

I wanted to dig up a few of my old proposals that I think still have some life in them. From here and here respectively, with some modifications.

The first proposal is a modification to the drive techs. Right now, they do not have any differences and I think there needs to be some way of making them more unique as opposed to flavor. Numbers are flexible and the current ones are just ment to demo the concept. Also adds Hydrolic Drives.

1906 Electric Drives: Allows for Electric drives. Takes a additional 20% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 15% bonus to range plus improved compartmentalization (effects number of torpedo hits to sink).
1910: Hydrolic drives: Allows for Hydrolic drives. Takes an additional 10% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 5% bonus to range.
1912 Geared Drives: Allows for Geared drives. Provides a 10% bonus to range.
1912 Diesel Engines: Allows for Diesel engines to be used as part of mixed drive units or standalone power. Takes a additional 30% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 15% bonus to range. Can be combined with Electric, Hydrolic or Geared drives (Bonus and penalties stack).

The second is with regard to research flowing more naturaly. I will just quote my previous thoughts on the subject.

Regarding research, I present the following regarding cost of research. This would allow for research to be conducted more organically wile still using the N3 tree for speed of start. Instead of having a year that tech can be researched from, it is possible as long as you have the previous technology. It is however much more expensive. The formula is Cost= (Base cost)*(e^(year difference from listed tech)). This also makes it cheaper to catch up on outdated technology.

In this case, the base cost is what we have already discussed.

What do you guys think about both these items?

[snip]

Another proposal to simplify the gun table by reworking it into less columns, a more even progression of boar (2" increments) and eliminating redundant ones (the 8" and 9") while allowing for guns greater then 18".

Maximum Bore Diameter Tech >18" 18" 16" 14" 12" 10"> 35 1885 - - - 3200 2000 1100 40 1895 - - - - 3000 1700 45 1902 - - - 4200 3300 2100 50 1907 - - 5200 4700 3600 - - 1911 - 6500 5800 5100 - 2500 55 1915 9700 7100 6400 5500 3900 - - 1921 10300 8200 7200 5900 4200 2800 60 1928 10900 9500 7800 - - - -

[Logi]

I'm okay with the change to the engine techs.

On first glance, I'm not in favor of the research cost because it requires a calculator. I don't think most of us have the e-table memorized.

Again on first glance, the gun tech modification seems fine.

[snip]

I'm okay with the change to the engine techs.

On first glance, I'm not in favor of the research cost because it requires a calculator. I don't think most of us have the e-table memorized.

Again on first glance, the gun tech modification seems fine.

e could be changed to a integer, honestly I cannot recall why I used e to begin with.

[Walter]

Considering that the 8" and 9" are no longer in the table, does that mean I can keep the 200mm gun at 45 cal or do you want me to bring it down to 40 cal?

[snip]

Considering that the 8" and 9" are no longer in the table, does that mean I can keep the 200mm gun at 45 cal or do you want me to bring it down to 40 cal?

The guns less then 10" are all covered with that column.

[Walter]

... guess I need a pair of glasses...

[snip]

... guess I need a pair of glasses...

I noted it as 10">, so in plain English Less then or equivalent to 10"

[Walter]

Yes and I did not see that. That is why I need a pair of glasses.

... although '>' actually means 'bigger than' and not 'less than' (or 'or equivalent to'). I may need glasses but do not need my mathematica books. ::)