Combat System Discussion

[Darman]

This thread has been quiet, however I am working on a land combat system for general battle results and casualties.  I will post it once it has been tested.  Sea battles, I have not been working on a system for. 

[Darman]

This is the table for offensive/defensive combat events. 
The number at the top of each column is the difference between the attacker's strength and the defender's strength. 

Die Roll	-2	-1	0	1	2, 3	4, 5	6, 7	8, 9	10+
1	EX (A2.0/B2.0)	BR (A1.5/B2.5)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.5)	BR (A0.5/B5.0)	BR (A0.4/B5.5)	BR (A0.2/B6.0)
2	AR (A3.0/B1.6)	EX (A2.5/B1.8 )	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.5)	BR (A0.8/B4.0)	BR (A0.7/B4.5)	BR (A0.5/B5.0)
3	AR (A3.5/B1.2)	AR (A3.0/B1.4)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.5/B2.5)	BR (A1.1/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.5)	BR (A0.8/B4.0)
4	AR (A4.0/B0.8 )	AR (A3.5/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.1)	AR (A2.5/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.4/B3.0)	BR (A1.2/B3.5)
5	AR (A5.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.5/B0.7)	AR (A4.0/B0.8 )	AR (A3.5/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.8/B2.5)	BR (A1.6/B3.0)
6	AR (A6.0/B0.2)	AR (A5.5/B0.4)	AR (A5.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.5/B0.5)	AR (A4.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.0/B0.5)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	AR (A2.5/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B2.0)

This is the table that I'm hoping to use for meeting engagements between armies on the move.  The numbers in parenthesis are the casualty modifiers. 

Differential (Army A's Strength minus Army B's Strength)                     

Die Roll	-5	-3, -4	-2	-1	0	1	2	3, 4	5+
1	EX (A2.0/B2.0)	BR (A1.5/B2.5)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.0)	BR (A0.5/B4.5)	BR (A0.5/B5.0)	BR (A0.4/B5.5)	BR (A0.2/B6.0)
2	AR (A3.0/B1.6)	EX (A2.5/B1.8 )	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.5)	BR (A0.8/B4.0)	BR (A0.7/B4.5)	BR (A0.5/B5.0)
3	AR (A3.5/B1.2)	AR (A3.0/B1.4)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.5/B2.5)	BR (A1.1/B3.0)	BR (A1.0/B3.5)	BR (A0.8/B4.0)
4	AR (A4.0/B0.8 )	AR (A3.5/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.1)	AR (A2.5/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.5/B2.0)	BR (A1.4/B3.0)	BR (A1.2/B3.5)
5	AR (A5.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.5/B0.7)	AR (A4.0/B0.8 )	AR (A3.5/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	EX (A2.0/B1.5)	EX (A1.8/B2.5)	BR (A1.6/B3.0)
6	AR (A6.0/B0.2)	AR (A5.5/B0.4)	AR (A5.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.5/B0.5)	AR (A4.0/B0.5)	AR (A4.0/B0.5)	AR (A3.0/B1.0)	AR (A2.5/B1.5)	EX (A2.0/B2.0)

A= A Team	EX= Exchange
B= B Team	R= Retreat

This table is for each side to independently roll for casualties.  Casualties are then altered by the modifier numbers in the table above. 

Die Roll	Original	Alt 1	Alt 2
1	3.5%	3%	2%
2	5%	4.25%	5%
3	6.5%	5.5%	6.5%
4	8%	6.75%	7.5%
5	9.5%	8%	9%
6	11%	9.25%	12%

[Logi]

I've mentioned on the IRC before that this flies over my head. Since Snip is the other main party in this discussion, I'm going to ask Snip do the honors of deciding when to close discussion on this topic.

[snip]

I've mentioned on the IRC before that this flies over my head. Since Snip is the other main party in this discussion, I'm going to ask Snip do the honors of deciding when to close discussion on this topic.

I think we are at the point where we need something to sim out to see how well it works. I think we can move forward with start-up at this point without really effecting this, with the caveat of any revenge wars/crusades/native oppression might need to wait if they require simming.

[snip]

The only question I have before "locking" this to further modification until we have had a chance to test it is did we ever decide to move away from the current pricing and manpower for army corps? If no, this topic will be locked until we have results to discuss the combat system with.

[Darman]

The only question I have before "locking" this to further modification until we have had a chance to test it is did we ever decide to move away from the current pricing and manpower for army corps? If no, this topic will be locked until we have results to discuss the combat system with.

I believe we wanted to move away from the existing blanket 50,000 men for all corps and move to a Specialist Corps with 25,000 men and an Infantry Corps of 50,000 men (and a resulting situation where Specialist Corps are half the combat power of Infantry Corps). 
As for costs...

Primitive Infantry: movement 1, combat 3, $4, 0.5BP
Primitive Specialist: movement 1, combat 1.5, $6, 0.25BP

I'm also assuming that the basic unit (for now) is the Corps, with a Division being 1/2 of a Corps and a Brigade is 1/5 of a Division.  There was a proposal that divisions be made the basic unit, adding flexibility (we get twice as many divisions as we do corps). 

[Darman]

1870 Primitive Infantry Division: movement 1, combat 6, $2, 0.25BP
1870 Primitive Specialist Division: movement 1, combat 3, $3, 0.125BP

1880 Dated Infantry: movement 1, combat 8, $4, 0.5BP
1880 Dated Specialist: movement 1, combat 4, $6, 0.25BP

1895 Baseline Infantry: movement 1, combat 10, $6, 0.75BP
1895 Baseline Specialist: movement 1: combat 5, $9, 0.375BP


We've made the change over to divisions as the main combatant unit rather than corps. 

Armies still cost the same (i.e. 50,000 man corps and 2 25,000 man divisions cost the same)

[snip]

For ease of thought, I figured I would put some approximate OTL equipment to each level in an attempt to make them less abstract.

1870: American Civil War era equipment. Black powder weapons. Muzzle loaders and Lever-action repeaters.
1885: Sino-Japanese War era equipment. Introduction of breachloading rifles. BL artillery without recoil carages.
1895: Ruso-Japanese War era equipment. Introduction of HMG, QF artillery with recoil carages.
1905: Early WWI era equipment. Proliferation of HMG, QF artillery.
1915: Late WWI era equipment. Introduction of heavy artillery.

[Walter]

Considering that 1885 says "Introduction of breachloading rifles" I assume that the 1870 "Muzzle loaders" refers not just to artillery but to infantry weapons as well. I don't quite agree with this. While quite a few weapons were muzzle loading rifles, there were various rifle designs like the Spencer repeating rifle, Henry repeating rifle, Burnside carbine, etc. around in that time as well and would be part of the equipment of an 1870 unit. Being an 1870 design, even the Martini-Henry rifle is a valid weapon for an 1870 unit.

[snip]

some approximate

Not an all-emcompacing list, but modified to add Lever-Action repeaters.

[Walter]

Well, I thought it was far from "approximate" ::)

... and I don't think that the Burnside carbine and Martini-Henry are Lever-Action repeaters... *runs away* ;D

On the other hand, thinking of it now, I seem to remember that it was mentioned that the various unit levels was about structure and organization and tactics and stuff and not about the weapons used by the units so I am not sure why such a list is needed. I think it had to do with simplicity.

[Darman]

Combat Results Table

The first number at the head of each column is the ratio of attacking force to defending force.  The number in parenthesis is the ratio of "attacking" to "defending" forces during a movement to contact encounter. 
AR= Attacker breaks contact and retreats.  DR = Defender breaks contact and retreats.  EX= neither side breaks contact. 

	1-5, 1-6 (1-7)	1-3, 1-4 (1-5, 1-6)	1-2 (1-3, 1-4)	1-1 (1-2)	2-1 (1-1)	3-1 (2-1)	4-1 (3-1)	5-1, 6-1 (4-1, 5-1)	7-1, 9-1 (6-1, 9-1)
1	AR (A6.0/D0.5)	AR (A5.5/D0.5)	AR (A5.0/D1.0)	AR (A4.5/D1.5)	AR (A4.0/D2.0)	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)
2	AR (A5.5/D0.5)	AR (A5.0/D1.0)	AR (A4.5/D1.5)	AR (A4.0/D2.0)	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)	DR (A2.0/D4.0)
3	AR (A5.0/D1.0)	AR (A4.5/D1.5)	AR (A4.0/D2.0)	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)	DR (A2.0/D4.0)	DR (A1.5/D4.5)
4	AR (A4.5/D1.5)	AR (A4.0/D2.0)	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)	DR (A2.0/D4.0)	DR (A1.5/D4.5)	DR (A1.0/D5.0)
5	AR (A4.0/D2.0)	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)	DR (A2.0/D4.0)	DR (A1.5/D4.5)	DR (A1.0/D5.0)	DR (A0.5/D5.5)
6	AR (A3.5/D2.5)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	EX (A3.0/D3.0)	DR (A2.5/D3.5)	DR (A2.0/D4.0)	DR (A1.5/D4.5)	DR (A1.0/D5.0)	DR (A0.5/D5.5)	DR (A0.5/D6.0)

[Darman]

Modifying Factors:

Quality/Morale: I'd like to use the same system as in N3. 

Morale Levels

-Green/Reserve: a freshly raised or just mobilized reserve unit.

-Regular: Standing army, or recruit corps after 6 months in wartime. A newly raised corps need 12 months to achieve this status.

-Elite:  Any 'Regular' unit kept at wartime upkeep in peacetime for 24 months becomes 'elite'. During war, after twelve months of warfare without horrendous losses, a 'regular' unit can become 'elite'. This bonus disappear after 6 months of reduced readiness.

-Veteran:  Elite units after 18 months of war, unless the casualties were very heavy (Great War - like), become 'veteran'. Effect would dissipate after taking heavy losses or three years of peacetime, degrading unit back to elite. Funding cut back will reduce the morale status to 'regular' in six months.

During combat, if one side has an advantage in morale levels, then for each level in difference the higher morale unit gains 10% of its base combat power. 

Entrenchments and Field Fortifications: In the sim that snip, Logi, and I are currently running to test the combat system, we are using turns measured in weeks.  After 1 week spent entrenching, a unit should have completed sufficient fieldworks and fortifications to gain a significant edge in combat power when on the defensive.  As soon as the unit leaves its works, they are considered destroyed unless another unit is occupying them immediately.  I figured that after 1 full week entrenching and digging in, the unit should gain 25% of its base combat power. 
If two opposing units are entrenched immediately adjacent to each other and are both acting defensively, an artillery duel ensues and combat is determined using the movement to contact table.  However, the movement results (attacker/defender retreats) are ignored and only casualties are considered. 

Scouting/Reconnaissance: Cavalry units can be assigned reconnaissance roles, combat power is halved (the units are so scattered they can be defeated in detail) but casualties are also cut in half (same reason, the units are tasked with scouting, less likely to be caught unawares and also because they are scattered, they are harder to defeat all of them), additionally, cavalry movement is reduced by 1/4 to reflect that they are not in columns but instead are scattered.  However, two units both scouting are treated as a movement to contact. 

As I come up with more I'll post them. 

Edit  23:54h 4/20/2014
Added the reduction of cavalry movement during scouting operations by 25%. 

[snip]

Pending the results of our practice campaign, I am locking this topic.