Techology Discussion

[Logi]

I agree with Snip on the issue of accounting. The more non-obvious (easy to overlook) the modifications to the report, the more likely people will make a mistake on their report. If one much fiddle with the engine size, SHP, or year, it's easy to see how a simmer could make a mistake.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I forgot to address this point separate of my response to the SS2vsSS3 weight distribution issue.

You didn't need to. My concerns were rooted in SS2.  I have rather limited time to peruse threads and comment and either missed or forgot it was SS3.  I really haven' simmed ships in SS3 to see what the difference between +500tons below deck misc weight and +500tons below deck engine weight have on the vessel.   However, even if there is a viable difference, I could concede that keeping it simply and replicatable might be the best course. :)

[Darman]

As far as differences in wights and tonnage go, or advantages/disadvantages to be gained, as long as its the same for everyone, that is the key. 

[Logi]

Leaving the whole issue of carriers design guidelines and what-not, here are the current proposals. Look over them, if there is no objection I will close this topic.

You all have until April 18 11:59 pm UTC (7:59 pm EST or 4:59 pm PST) to object. That's a 4-day (86-hour) window.

Currently Active Proposals

Research Cost as modified by distance from Stated Year
c = cost
b = Base cost
y = number of year tech's being researched earlier/later than listed. Earlier being negative, 0 being the exact year and later being positive numbers.

If y<0: c=b*(y^2+1)
If y=0: c=b
If y>0: c=b*(1/y))

Gun/Mount Research
For guns larger than 8.27"/210mm, it takes two years to research, at a cost of $0.50 per half-year.
For guns no larger than 8.27"/210mm, the research time is the same, but the cost is halved to $0.25 per half-year.

When a gun is first researched, the player can pick ONE free mount (outside of the single-deck provision).
There is no need to research single deck mounts (+/- hoists) and casemates for guns of 8.27"/210mm and smaller.  Turrets and multi-gun deck mounts for these weapons require six months per gun barrel, at a cost of $0.1 per half-year.

For any type of mount with a gun larger than 8.27"/210mm, six months of development is required per barrel, at a cost of $0.25 per half-year.

Guns and their mountings may be researched simultaneously.

A nation may acquire gun and/or gun mount licences from another nation.  The development time of this equipment is halved (with the half-year costs being unaffected), and the weapons may then be used as the basis for future development of new weapons.

Gun Technology Chart

Maximum Bore Diameter Tech >18" 18" 16" 14" 12" 10"> 35 1885 - - - 3200 2000 1100 40 1895 - - - - 3000 1700 45 1900 - - - 4200 3300 2100 50 1905 - - 5200 4700 3600 - - 1910 - 6500 5800 5100 - 2500 55 1915 9700 7100 6400 5500 3900 - - 1920 10300 8200 7200 5900 4200 2800 60 1925 10900 9500 7800 - - - -

Tech Tree Modifications

Capital Ship Architecture

Main guns are defined as the largest caliber carried on the ship, intermediary guns are anything between the main caliber and 155mm guns, secondaries are 80-155mm, tertiary are <79mm.

1880: Main guns in twin turrets, secondaries in casemate, tertiary in casemate or deck mounts.
1891: Mixed-caliber main battery (Main+intermediary calibers), Superfiring secondaries (Restricted Axial Firing Arcs) and Stacked Main Battery turrets OR Main caliber battery in AQY. [Pick One Only]
1902: All-big-gun ship with wing turrets OR Superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs) [Pick one or both]
1905: Improved turret hydraulics, independent gun elevation, Torpedo Bulkheads, triple turrets
1908: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), "All or Nothing" Protective Schemes
1912: Quadruple turrets, Sloped external belts
1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns

Drive Shafts. Note I have included some of the recommendations. All techs in this tree are optional in the sense that previous ones are not prerequisites for later techs, sans direct drives which everyone gets. This proposal treats the SS default figures for both range, weight and SHP as those for direct drives.

1890: Direct Drives: The basic drive option. No bonus or penalty.
1906: Electric Drives: Allows for Electric drives. Takes a additional 25% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 15% bonus to range plus improved compartmentalization (effects number of torpedo hits to sink).
1910: Hydraulic Drives: Allows for Hydraulic drives. Takes an additional 10% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 5% bonus to range.
1912: Geared Drives: Allows for Geared drives. Provides a 10% bonus to range.
1912: Diesel Engines: Allows for Diesel engines to be used as part of mixed drive units or standalone power. Takes a additional 30% of engine weight in misc weight and provides a 75% bonus to range. Can be combined with Electric, Hydraulic or Geared drives (Bonus and penalties stack). [Note: Might add to this to account for cruise-only engines]

[snip]

All looking good to me. I have another thought on gun tech tho, do we want to add some sort of prevision that makes it cheaper or faster to research longer guns of a boar that you already have? IE, researching as 14"/50 is cheaper and/or takes less time if you have a 14"/45?

[Walter]

The boar agrees. ;D


Would make sense as you already have the baseline of the gun. I think the same could be said of the turrets. If I have a twin 14" turret and going research a triple.

One thing I never looked at and thought about... if I have a 12"/35 cal gun and twin turret for it, do I need to research a new twin turret if I were to introduce a new 12"/45 cal gun? (i.e. do I consider the turret as a 12" turret or do I consider it to be a 12"/35 cal turret?)

[snip]

Would make sense as you already have the baseline of the gun. I think the same could be said of the turrets. If I have a twin 14" turret and going research a triple.

One thing I never looked at and thought about... if I have a 12"/35 cal gun and twin turret for it, do I need to research a new twin turret if I were to introduce a new 12"/45 cal gun? (i.e. do I consider the turret as a 12" turret or do I consider it to be a 12"/35 cal turret?)

Im going to disagree on turrets. On the question of moving to longer guns, the ammunition handling mechanisms, layout, balancing, and many other things are so finely tuned that modifying them so drastically was to my knowledge never done (replacing the guns is different then boaring out the existing ala the Italian jobs IMO). Therefor, I would consider all turrets to be directly associated with the gun they were developed for and not interchangeable. However, there could be a similar discount for making a turret for a longer gun of existing layout (twin, trip quad).

[snip]

Looks like the time has past and this is now locked.