Rollcall and Other Misc. Statistics

[The Rock Doctor]

Well yes $10 per IC is much cheaper to be sure. 

I just don't get why you have two unrelated mechanics to limit research is all.

Michael

Actually, there's a third mechanic in play.  National revenues are much decreased from N3, but the cost of stuff remains unchanged.  There's just less cash to throw at anything other than the most essential projects.

[Guinness]

Actually, there's a third mechanic in play.  National revenues are much decreased from N3, but the cost of stuff remains unchanged.  There's just less cash to throw at anything other than the most essential projects.

This. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this. I was planning to do some math to prove it today.

[Guinness]

And to further the thought, I think it's ok if everyone gets a little more $ (and even BP).

In my mind, one of the problems in N3 was that no one could build as much as they wanted. In general, that was 'realistic' given our world's starting setup, but I think it was still unsatisfying for many. Being able to bulid more, even if the total is more than the OTL world could have manufactured, would make for more satisfying gameplay. I also think we'd have to work really hard to get to the point where we could outbuild the total OTL world. I say this because I think our BP construct over-estimates the cost of developing heavy industry.

At any rate, I'd propose we keep Pop as is, but do a blanket increase in BP an IC for every country. By how much? I don't know, I'd have to crunch some numbers, which I may not have time for today.

N3 started with the same problem, but it was even worse, and required the Great BP Expansion a few years down the road. I think we want to avoid that. If we shoot high, we can always just make BP and IC more expensive later to compensate.

[miketr]

Just as some random data.  Germany in 1900 Laid down the following.

Battleships
Schwaben & Mecklenburg
Armored Cruisers
Prinz Adalbert
Small Cruisers
Medusa
Torpedo Boats
A total of 14

At first glance this looks easy to do on 24 BP (Assuming that number is correct as I still think it should be 24 IC)

BUT

Germany still had under-construction from before the following
Battleships
Kaiser Wilhelm II (1896), Kaiser Wilhelm der Große (1898), Kaiser Karl der Große (1898), Kaiser Barbarossa (1898), Wettin (1899), Wittelsbach (1899) and Zähringen (1899)
Armored Cruisers
Prinz Heinrich (1898) and Fürst Bismarck (1896)
Small Cruisers
Amazone (1899), Ariadne (1899), Thetis (1899), Nymphe (1898), Niobe (1898) & Gazelle (1897)
Torpedo Boats
A total of 10

If objective is to be realistic I think more BP are in order.  If you don't care then you don't care.

Michael

[Guinness]

Just to be crystal clear as to my meta role right now: I'm just a player, in addition to the responsibility of keeping the website up. Logi and Snip are the GMs.

My comments above are stating my opinion, and I of course hope that Logi and Snip feel the need to act on it, but they aren't required to.

I would like some more BP so that any future war with the Ottomans can be more interesting...

edited for clarity

[snip]

Its looking like most every nation needs more cash to be sure. I can say that I don't need more than my 31BP until I have the cash to take advantage of it. As of right now, I can only use about 1/3 of that number (I will note I could use more if I cut down on research funding and was not building airships, so utalising about 1/2 is possible if I focus on just burning BP). What I think we should aim for is that each nation is able to utalise the vast majority of its startup BP, without cutting into things like research budgets or upkeep. The only way we can do that, is if we see the economic breakdown from all the nations. IIRC, we are still missing a few.

As to how we arrived at the BP figures, Logi can explain better then me, but it did involve looking at RL figures so there is some basis in OTL economies for that section at least.

[Guinness]

The only way we can do that, is if we see the economic breakdown from all the nations. IIRC, we are still missing a few.

Meaning the region by region part of the 1900 sim report, or something else?

[snip]

This:

Region	Pop	IC	BP	Revenue	Research
New England	4.68	12	11	$15.83	$7.32
Mid Atlantic	16.55	10	7	$21.66	$0.00
Great Lakes	15.99	5	10	$11.60	$0.00
South	19.12	3	2	$7.91	$0.00
Midwest	16.64	0	0	$1.66	$0.00
West	3.24	1	1	$2.32	$0.00

EDIT: And total revenue. $60.98

[Guinness]

Country	Year	Half	War	Ratio
Russia	1900	1	NO	50
Region	Pop	IC	BP	Revenue	Research
European Russia	89.9	8	7	24.99	0
St. Petersburg	2	3	3	5.2	1
Moscow	1	2	1	3.1	1
Congress Poland	25	3	1	8.5	0
Finland	2	0.5	0	1.2	0
Caucusus	10.5	1	0	3.05	0
Siberia	12.5	1	0	3.25	0
Turkestan	7	1	0	2.7	0
Total	149.9	19.5	12	51.99	2

[Logi]

Region Population IC BP Revenue R&D Honshu 35.7 4 4 12.57 0 Kyushu 5.6 1 0 2.56 0 Shikoku 2.3 4 2 6.03 1.7 Hokkaido 0.5 0 0 0.05 0 Korea 14.7 2 0 5.47 0 Philliphines 7.3 0 0 0.73 0 Ryuku Islands 0 0 0 0 0 TOTAL 66.1 11 6 26.91 1.7

As to how we arrived at the BP figures, Logi can explain better then me, but it did involve looking at RL figures so there is some basis in OTL economies for that section at least.

The BP amounts was derived from the Annual Pig Iron & Steel Production of each country in 1870-1900. These figures were then flattened towards the middle ground, which I think was Italy. Some minor modification to the numbers were made afterwards, but that was it.

I'm considering measures to increase IC and BP.

[Logi]

By the way.... if you want to chime in... join the IRC channel #Navalism at NightStar. You can use this link.

[miketr]

Please note the revenue of Germany.

Region	Pop	IC	BP	Revenue	Research
Berlin	2.00	3.00	4.50	5.20	1
East Prussia	5.50	1.00	1.50	2.55	0
Silesia-Posen	7.00	1.50	2.00	3.70	0
South Germany	11.00	3.00	4.50	7.10	0
Rhine-Westphalia	10.00	3.00	4.50	7.00	0
Saxony-Brandenburg	8.00	2.00	3.00	4.80	0
Hanover-S-H	6.00	1.50	2.00	3.60	0
Hesse-Thuringia	7.00	1.50	2.00	3.70	0
				0.00	0
Deutsch-Neuguinea	0.50	0.00		0.05	0
Total	57	16.5	24	37.70	1

[Walter]

Regarding the BPs and ICs, I think one has to look at what one can spend per BP. For some it is easier to spend $ and BPs than others. Note that the below only looks at the military budget and BPs and ignores stuff like upkeep that would normally be subtracted from the military budget.

China $3.79/BP
Germany $0.79/BP
Japan $2.24/BP
Ottoman $1.32/BP
Russia $2.17/BP
UK $1.41/BP (edited using Darman's numbers)
USA $0.98/BP

China can easily spend its BPs on ships and have leftover cash for other things (including upkeep of the units). Germany and the USA have an almost impossible task because they need additional cash in order to spend all their BPs and thus would have no cash leftover for any upkeep of the units.

Now compare that with the $:BP Ratio of the various things...

Infantry $8/BP
Spec/Cav $24/BP
Citadel $8-16/BP
Line $12-24/BP
Siege art $16/BP
Ships $1/BP
CD guns $1/BP

So with much of the army stuff, the US and Germany need to borrow even more money or have even more leftover BPs. I wonder if it is an idea for those two to be able to 'sell' some BPs and be allowed to use some of the civilian budget for military purposes in exchange.

[Darman]

Region	Pop	IC	BP	Revenue	Research
English Midlands	3.3	8		10.93	4.7
England (minus Midlands)	26.9	6	18	8.69	0
Ireland	4.5	1	1	1.45	0
Scotland	4.5	1	3	1.45	0
Wales	2	2	2	4.2	0
India	284.5	17	4	45.45	0
Ceylon	3.9	0	0	0.39	0
Burma	10.2	1	0	2.02	0
Australia	3.7	6	0	10.07	2.3
New Zealand	0.8	0.5	0	0.58	0
Canada	5.7	2	0	2.57	0
Cape Colony	2.9	1	0	1.29	0
Leeward Islands	0.13	0	0	0.013	0
Windward Islands	0.62	0	0	0.062	0
Bermuda	0.08	0	0	0.008	0
Jamaica	0.73	0	0	0.073	0
Indian Ocean Terr.	0.45	0	0	0.045	0
South Atlantic Terr.	0.01	0	0	0.001	0
Gold Coast	3.97	0	0	0.397	0
North Borneo	0.32	0	0	0.032	0
Malaya	1.45	0	0	0.145	0
Pacific Territory	0.17	0	0	0.017	0
Total	357.53	37.5	28	78.953	7

[Darman]

Region	Pop	IC	BP	Revenue	Research
English Midlands	3.3	8	9	10.93	4.7
England (-Midlands)	26.9	6	10	8.69	0
Ireland	4.5	1	1	1.45	0
Scotland	4.5	1	3	1.45	0
Wales	2	2	1	4.2	0
India	284.5	16	4	44.45	0
Ceylon	3.9	1	0	1.39	0
Burma	10.2	1	0	2.02	0
Australia	3.7	6	0	10.07	2.3
New Zealand	0.8	0.5	0	0.58	0
Canada	5.7	2	0	2.57	0
Cape Colony	2.9	1	0	1.29	0
Leeward Islands	0.13	0	0	0.013	0
Windward Islands	0.62	0	0	0.062	0
Bermuda	0.08	0	0	0.008	0
Jamaica	0.73	0	0	0.073	0
Indian Ocean Terr.	0.45	0	0	0.045	0
South Atlantic Terr.	0.01	0	0	0.001	0
Gold Coast	3.97	0	0	0.397	0
North Borneo	0.32	0	0	0.032	0
Malaya	1.45	0	0	0.145	0
Pacific Territory	0.17	0	0	0.017	0
Total	357.53	45.5	28	89.883	7