Rollcall and Other Misc. Statistics

[miketr]

Any more questions/clarifications?

Not at the moment.

Michael

[Darman]

Welcome back mike!

[Walter]

Something I just noticed...

I get the impression that the combat ratings in the Fortifications, Siege Artillery, and Coast Defense thread are the old navalism ratings. Looking at it now, by significantly bumping up the combat ratings of the infantry/specialist units for this version of Navalism, fortified lines and citadels are completely useless to have unless you have 18 citadel fortresses, although that one is so expensive and takes so long to build that it is better to use the money and BPs to build infantry units.

Right now, an 1895 20km fortified line with 25,000 men seems like it'll get its ass kicked by even a lowly 1870 infantry unit with 25,000 men. Yet you have to pay $8 and 0.5 BP for that line and only $2 and 0.25BP fr the infantry unit. Looking at that, it makes a lot more sense to have 2 mobile and more powerful 1870 infantry divisions and save $4 than 1 fixed 20km fortified line. And it looks like those 2 1870 infantry divisions combined could easily overrun a 40km 1915 fortified line.

An 1895 18 citadel fortress is $48 and 4.5BP and takes 18 HYs to build. For the same money I can buy 6 1895 infantry units in 1 HY (2 at most), save $12 and have a combat rating that is 5 times the combat rating of the 18 citadel fortress. And those 6 infantry units can be moved elsewhere when needed while the fort can't.

[snip]

We are still adjusting the exact values, but you can be assured that they will remain in proportion to army units as they were in N3.

[Walter]

Okay. I thought that since they were posted in the rules, those values were final.

[snip]

Okay. I thought that since they were posted in the rules, those values were final.

Costs and such are. I think we had talked about how Forts effect combat, but never adjusted the values in the posted version.

[The Rock Doctor]

Remind me where the map went?  I need to download the updated version.

[Guinness]

Is the one here current?

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6447.0.html

BTW: Russia still needs Kars.  8)

[snip]

Is the one here current?

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6447.0.html

BTW: Russia still needs Kars.  8)

That is the current map.

[The Rock Doctor]

Is the one here current?

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6447.0.html

BTW: Russia still needs Kars.  8)

Can not haz.

[miketr]

If we are making map requests Germany needs to include the rest of Schleswig-Holstein.  So next two areas up on Jutland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Schleswig-Holstein

Michael

[Walter]

Is the one here current?

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,6447.0.html

BTW: Russia still needs Kars.  8)

Can not haz.

The Chinese Tibettan Empire needs Nepal and Bhutan, but won't get them so I don't see why Russia should get Kars... :)

[Guinness]

I guess we need to decide if this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kars, or for that matter if the Russo-Turkish war of 1877 happened at all. It seems not? I think it's sensible that the war still happened, even if we don't have Bulgaria now, no?

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd repost the suggestion I had sent via PM, but for some reason I can't find my "out box"...

[The Rock Doctor]

Oh, there it is.

-It's 1875, and Austria-Hungary doesn't like how the Ottomans are getting their act together under a more sane Murad V.  They attack into Bosnia/Croatia and the Serbs join in because they covet some of Herzegovina.

-Ottoman resistence is surprisingly competent.  AH under-estimates this, and so suffers significant casualties.  Feeling stung as a result of this and the earlier, historical defeat by Prussia, AH doubles down and throws more troops at the Ottomans.

-The Romanians start smelling a chance to break free of the Ottomans, and launch an uprising a bit earlier than the historical 1877 thing.  Maybe 1876.

-On the other hand, the Bulgarians, somewhat placated by Murad V's reforms, are far less antsy.  Sporadic uprisings occur, and the Ottomans are able to suppress them with far less atrocity than historical.  Consequently, the Ottomans don't lose western favor as much as they did before.

-By 1877, the war is still a bloody stalemate.  However, it's time for Austria and Hungary to negotiate the ratio of common expenditures incurred by each.  The ongoing war and its expenses - trigger a crisis, akin to that of WW1 AH, and the empire suddenly fractures. 

-In the ensuing chaos, Austrian forces vacate the field; the Ottomans retake their lost territories, then start moving north.  The Ottomans also march back into Serbia, which they'd been ejected from in the 1860s.

-Russians start talking about intervention, but the other major powers force a peace conference.  It's entirely possible some of this stems from German concerns over stability on their border, and maybe the Ottomans lean on the British about Suez access.  Regardless, a peace is forced before the Russian armies get into the area.

-Major terms of the peace are:

-->AH is formally recognized as multiple successor states

-->Ottoman war gains against AH result in formalized territorial gains

-->Serbia does not gain recognition as a fully independent kingdom.

-->Russia's price for peace is the independence of Romania and territorial concessions around Armenia, which the Ottomans accede to.  While kind of victorious, the Ottomans can't afford to fight the Russians and accept these terms.

Subsequently:

-The Russo-Turkish War of 1877 is butterflied away.  Therefore, territorial losses associated with that war - Greater Bulgaria - are butterflied away.

-And Bulgarian restlessness is much subdued as well.

-The Ottomans retain nominal control over Serbia, and gradually translate that into actual control.  This is probably still a problem area for the Ottomans.

-Romania, having come into being with much less Russian help than historical, is more of a determined neutral here, perhaps hunkering down to deter either Russia or OE from using it as a waypoint to the other guy.