Buying IC and BP with starting funds

[KWorld]

I think it seems more than reasonable to allow additional IC and BP to be constructed during the startup period.

I agree, but this extra BP and IC should only come into effect during the first turn of the game, not during start-up.

Absolutely the case, yes, buying IC with startup funds will not result in more startup funds.

[Darman]

I think it seems more than reasonable to allow additional IC and BP to be constructed during the startup period.

I agree, but this extra BP and IC should only come into effect during the first turn of the game, not during start-up.

Absolutely the case, yes, buying IC with startup funds will not result in more startup funds.

I was more concerned with it resulting in more BP

[KWorld]

I think it seems more than reasonable to allow additional IC and BP to be constructed during the startup period.

I agree, but this extra BP and IC should only come into effect during the first turn of the game, not during start-up.

Absolutely the case, yes, buying IC with startup funds will not result in more startup funds.

I was more concerned with it resulting in more BP

Bah, I should have said that buying the ability to produce more IC or BP with startup funds does not result in additional startup funds of either sort.  Better?

[Darman]

much. 

[KWorld]

So, how should we determine this?  Have a fixed cost for pre-game IC and BP additions?  Or have them based on the formula that we use to determine the cost of the next IC and BP we buy?  The first is easy and simple, the second forces us to re-calc each time.

[Walter]

I would go for simple so it doesn't take too much time finalizing the start up.

[KWorld]

So, just throwing out numbers:

IC 20 & BP 100?
IC 10 & BP 100?
Something else?

[miketr]

I assume you mean 100 IC and 20 BP.  Are you keeping the old N3 economic system then?

POP + IC = $2
Just pop = $0.2
IC above pop = $1
BP ratio of 1 BP per 4 IC

If that is the case a better question might to ask what type of economy do you want players to have?  You need to set Pop too.

If you are going to just use the old N3 economics then look at where the numbers were over the course of the game; the world economy thread.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,1774.0.html

I would suggest no more than say 15 BP to start for the big players.  After all the start date is 1870 and a really big ship is going to be well south of 15,000 tons light tons.  15 BP a half, gets you 30 BP a year; thats going to be a lot to start.  60 IC, 15 BP and 60 POP.  Would give you a starting economy of $120 with 15 BP a half year to spend.  That would be a good number.

If you want a rapid increase then lower the cost of IC and BP.

I would also not allow players to build BP over seas / colonial territory and have some type of cap on IC being placed there, maybe 1 for every 2 Pop or something.  IE if Brazil takes over Argentina or Angola its conquered territory and it had 10 million people than a max of 5 IC could be placed there and no BP.  Just a suggestion.

Michael

[Walter]

I think we're talking about pre-start cost. $10 or $20 for 1 IC and $100 for 1 Bp.

[miketr]

I think we're talking about pre-start cost. $10 or $20 for 1 IC and $100 for 1 Bp.

OK

Michael

[KWorld]

I think we're talking about pre-start cost. $10 or $20 for 1 IC and $100 for 1 Bp.

OK

Michael

Exactly: what I'm talking about here is what are the costs in pre-start time to increase the number of IC and BP a country will generated per turn in game time.

[Darman]

$10 for IC and $100 for BP doesn't sound unreasonable.  My question is, will we do away with the IC requirements for BP?  As in, do we need a certain number of IC before we can buy a BP and then we must maintain a certain minimum ratio?  Because I feel like it wouldn't be a bad thing to allow any country that wanted to over-invest in heavy industry (BP) versus more commercially viable and income-producing industries (IC).  Let the country over-invest and maybe they make it work and maybe they dont, but don't artificially punish them for it, let the market decide. 

[Jefgte]

$10 for IC and $100 for BP doesn't sound unreasonable...

I agree but that must be confirmed & adjusted with the first reports.
KW place those values in the rules & w"ll modify eventualy later.

---
Generaly, Rules are not carved in marble & could be adjusted all time.

Jef

[KWorld]

$10 for IC and $100 for BP doesn't sound unreasonable...

I agree but that must be confirmed & adjusted with the first reports.
KW place those values in the rules & w"ll modify eventualy later.

---
Generaly, Rules are not carved in marble & could be adjusted all time.

Jef

Rules can be adjusted, yes, but these will only be used at game-start, so figuring out later that they're bad doesn't much help.  :)

[KWorld]

$10 for IC and $100 for BP doesn't sound unreasonable.  My question is, will we do away with the IC requirements for BP?  As in, do we need a certain number of IC before we can buy a BP and then we must maintain a certain minimum ratio?  Because I feel like it wouldn't be a bad thing to allow any country that wanted to over-invest in heavy industry (BP) versus more commercially viable and income-producing industries (IC).  Let the country over-invest and maybe they make it work and maybe they dont, but don't artificially punish them for it, let the market decide.

As I recall, last game the cap on BP relative to IC was done away with, so I see no reason to keep it this time around.  I don't recall that there is a minimum number of IC needed to support a BP, is there?