France 1870 restart

[KWorld]

Some period photos of various OTL French cruisers.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/cruisers3.htm

[KWorld]

Total:44 ships & 185.240t

Hmmmm.  14.76 BP left for ports, slips, docks, forts, and soldiers.  Brest and Toulon will probably need to be AT LEAST Class D bases (which can support 50,000 tons of ships), and each Class D costs 6 BP.  Hmmmm......

[Walter]

I assume that Jef will be adjusting things a bit when he gets to that. I did that as well with previous Navalism runs.
1) Create the whole bunch what you are looking for (starting with the navy).
2) Look at the cost.
3) Adjust things until you get to the starting budget.
4) Fine tune it until you are satisfied with what you got.

[Jefgte]

Thanks KW for the link, nice  pictures.
--
200BP budget to start is short, the Fleet must be reducted & ... conquest not for 1871.
--
Walter is right, these are just a plan to see the  1870 SS possibilities & the tactical option of the Fleet.

Jef

[Walter]

The big ships are the ones eating up a lot of BPs.

Messing around a bit myself and recycling a lot of ships from the Navalism 4 attempt (which still have pre-1870 dates), I'm currently at the total of 110 ships with a combined weight of 131,174 tons. Maybe even that will prove to be too much. I will know that when I start messing with ports, slips, docks, armies and fortresses.

Experimental ships
1x 5530
1x 219
1x 25

Armored Ships
1x 3500
1x 4400
2x 2675
1x 8000
2x 8350

Sloops
7x 1500
6x 1300
13x 800

Gunboats
7x 650
40x 80

Monitors (with truly horrible awesome seakeeping!!!)
2x 3300
9x 2100
10x 1800
4x 950
2x 1850

[KWorld]

I've currently got about 150,000 tons, but nowhere near as many ships as that (38, I think).  What are the tiny ones useful for in a mostly pre-colonial era (depending on which country you chose, you might have a few or no overseas colonies at startup), carrying spar torpedoes maybe?

[Jefgte]

I rework all SS to have a fleet with 100 ships & about 130 000t.

A kind of Squadron Gunboat could be an interresting choice to have quantity & small SGB able to work with the battleline...

Jef

[Walter]

I've currently got about 150,000 tons, but nowhere near as many ships as that (38, I think).

It all depends on the size of the ships you sim. 40 river gunboats of 80 tons do add up to the total number of ships. I am still looking for a satisfactory real world vessel of that size to use for that one in order to fine-tune the final sim of that ship boat.

When you look at Jef's list, the smallest ship on his list is 1900 tons. Quite a few ships on my list are smaller than that. Still working on it as I type this post. Would be great to know the cost of other things.

What are the tiny ones useful for in a mostly pre-colonial era (depending on which country you chose, you might have a few or no overseas colonies at startup), carrying spar torpedoes maybe?

Those two tiny experimental ones are our secret weapons. ;D




One is this...

and the other is this...

... so yes, they carry a spar torpedo.

I simmed them just for fun and added them to my list (though will be removed if not deemed satisfactory). For true sillyness, the David's freeboard pic in SS even has that smoke stack. :D

A kind of Squadron Gunboat could be an interresting choice to have quantity & small SGB able to work with the battleline...

One might become a bit too focussed on what you will be sending onto the ocean (with conquest in mind) but you should not forget the jobs close to home. My monitors "with truly horrible awesome seakeeping!!!" are mostly for coastal work and stuff. Not intended to go too far away from home.

[Jefgte]

For this restart, Did we retain "standard" or "normal" displacement?

[Walter]

No idea. I'm working with normal display at the moment to be on the safe side. It is better to start with normal and then go back to standard. The other way around will result in a lot of headaches as your will suddenly require more BPs and $$$ if normal displacement is selected.

... still considering that I want some easy numbers to work with, I'll probably have to tweak the designs again should the decision be made to use standard displacement.

[KWorld]

For costs, same as last time: light displacement.  The only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.

[Walter]

Light displacement? Okay...

*recalculates tonnages list*

Hey! I just found 19000 extra tons to spend.  ;D

*goes off to fine-tune ships*

Personally, light displacement makes the most sense to me as this way you're paying for the ship, the whole ship and nothing but the ship. The additional stuff you add to it to get to normal displacement should be covered by upkeep.

The only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.

Well, if you look a bit further, submarine rules also require the normal displacement to calculate the ballast tank. Eventhough I added that in the sim for the David, it is not really a submarine.

Didn't see any confirmation when it comes to your proposed mast & sail bit, but I have been applying it to my ships because I like it...

... but looking at it again, I did it completely wrong. I calculated it as 5% for 5 knots instead of 7 knots...

[KWorld]

Light displacement? Okay...

*recalculates tonnages list*

Hey! I just found 19000 extra tons to spend.  ;D

*goes off to fine-tune ships*

Personally, light displacement makes the most sense to me as this way you're paying for the ship, the whole ship and nothing but the ship. The additional stuff you add to it to get to normal displacement should be covered by upkeep.

And since we have a maintenance system, we shouldn't be paying for fuel, water, or ammunition.  ;)

The only thing that I can think of, right now, that uses normal displacement is the mast & sails, those are based on the ships normal displacement.

Well, if you look a bit further, submarine rules also require the normal displacement to calculate the ballast tank. Eventhough I added that in the sim for the David, it is not really a submarine.

Didn't see any confirmation when it comes to your proposed mast & sail bit, but I have been applying it to my ships because I like it...

... but looking at it again, I did it completely wrong. I calculated it as 5% for 5 knots instead of 7 knots...

I've noticed fairly little response to several of my proposals (mast & sails, revised slip & dock costs, bases vs ports, etc).  <shrug>  I wish I got more.

[Walter]

Well, I shall consider them to be approved by everyone here. If they don't like it, they had plenty of time to object to it or come up with ideas of their own. :-)

[Jefgte]

Harbor, coastal or river Gunboat

GB2, France GB2 laid down 1870

Displacement:
   200 t light; 208 t standard; 241 t normal; 267 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (124.67 ft / 121.39 ft) x 22.97 ft x (5.04 / 5.49 ft)
   (38.00 m / 37.00 m) x 7.00 m  x (1.54 / 1.67 m)

Armament:
      1 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 30.0 cal gun - 23.53lbs / 10.67kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1870 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2.67lbs / 1.21kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      Weight of broadside 29 lbs / 13 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 220 ihp / 164 Kw = 10.09 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 59 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   29 - 39

Cost:
   £0.016 million / $0.063 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 1.5 %
      - Guns: 4 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 2.9 %
   Machinery: 54 tons, 22.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 105 tons, 43.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 41 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 12.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 15 tons
      - Above deck: 15 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     328 lbs / 149 Kg = 15.4 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 9.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.19 ft / 2.80 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.99 ft / 2.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 994 Square feet or 185 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 184 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Small patrol Gunboat