1870

[KWorld]

How about ignoring SpringSharp on this matter?

That can work, you just have to ignore the error message at the bottom of the window.  It doesn't stop you from generating a report, it just whines and prevents you from seeing your ships strength without going to the Performance tab.  It also whines and puts it's complaint in the report, as shown below:

USS Iowa, USA armored steam frigate laid down 1870

Displacement:
   3,290 t light; 3,453 t standard; 3,674 t normal; 3,850 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (335.00 ft / 335.00 ft) x 44.50 ft x (15.00 / 15.59 ft)
   (102.11 m / 102.11 m) x 13.56 m  x (4.57 / 4.75 m)

Armament:
      2 - 10.00" / 254 mm 15.0 cal guns - 300.00lbs / 136.08kg shells, 120 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0 cal guns - 90.00lbs / 40.82kg shells, 100 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      24 - 0.45" / 11.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,501 lbs / 681 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.50" / 114 mm   217.75 ft / 66.37 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 3,746 ihp / 2,795 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 396 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   235 - 306

Cost:
   £0.283 million / $1.133 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 3.0 %
      - Guns: 109 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 491 tons, 13.4 %
      - Belts: 333 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 158 tons, 4.3 %
   Machinery: 918 tons, 25.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,372 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 384 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 10.9 %
      - Above deck: 400 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,830 lbs / 1,283 Kg = 8.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.51 ft / 3.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,374 Square feet or 964 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 454 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Shell weight too light2nd Battery

10" guns are rifled pivot guns mounted fore and aft, while the 9" guns are smoothbore weapons on the broadside.  .45" guns are 6-barrelled Gatlings on pivot mounts atop the deckhouse amidships.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight is masts and sails sufficient to propel the ship at up to 13 knots in normal conditions (11% of normal displacement).

[KWorld]

Switching USS Iowa to an armament of all rifled guns results in:

USS Iowa, USA armored steam frigate laid down 1870

Displacement:
   3,284 t light; 3,453 t standard; 3,674 t normal; 3,850 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (335.00 ft / 335.00 ft) x 44.50 ft x (15.00 / 15.59 ft)
   (102.11 m / 102.11 m) x 13.56 m  x (4.57 / 4.75 m)

Armament:
      2 - 10.00" / 254 mm 15.0 cal guns - 300.00lbs / 136.08kg shells, 120 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 6.40" / 163 mm 20.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 100 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts, 1870 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      24 - 0.45" / 11.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,601 lbs / 726 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.50" / 114 mm   217.75 ft / 66.37 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 3,746 ihp / 2,795 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 396 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   235 - 306

Cost:
   £0.276 million / $1.104 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 91 tons, 2.5 %
      - Guns: 91 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 491 tons, 13.4 %
      - Belts: 333 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 158 tons, 4.3 %
   Machinery: 918 tons, 25.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,384 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 389 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 10.9 %
      - Above deck: 400 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,867 lbs / 1,301 Kg = 8.2 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.51 ft / 3.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,374 Square feet or 964 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 455 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

10" guns are rifled pivot guns mounted fore and aft, while the 6.4" guns are rifled guns in broadside mountings.  .45" guns are 6-barrelled Gatlings on pivot mounts atop the deckhouse amidships.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight is masts and sails sufficient to propel the ship at up to 13 knots in normal conditions (11% of normal displacement).

[KWorld]

If we do end up starting in 1870, I'd expect that our incomes would be around $200 per year for first line countries.

[Darman]

If we do end up starting in 1870, I'd expect that our incomes would be around $200 per year for first line countries.

And BP around 1/10 of that: 20?  I'd very much like to begin planning my navy and army etc.  And we don't need to start in 1870 per se, it can be 1880. 

PS: All player nations should be considered first line countries. 

[Jefgte]

If we do end up starting in 1870, I'd expect that our incomes would be around $200 per year for first line countries.

...200$ in all mean about 100$ for the Navies.

a 5000t frigate cost 5$ ( & 5BP if we reuse the old Navalism BP cost)

We could work on the plan.

:)

[KWorld]

If we do end up starting in 1870, I'd expect that our incomes would be around $200 per year for first line countries.

And BP around 1/10 of that: 20?  I'd very much like to begin planning my navy and army etc.  And we don't need to start in 1870 per se, it can be 1880.

Probably around 20 BP per year, yes.  Some of the players have been very keen on an early start, and 1870 is as early as I'm going to go.

PS: All player nations should be considered first line countries.

A couple players have said that they lack the time to play a first line country.

[KWorld]

If we do end up starting in 1870, I'd expect that our incomes would be around $200 per year for first line countries.

...200$ in all mean about 100$ for the Navies.

a 5000t frigate cost 5$ ( & 5BP if we reuse the old Navalism BP cost)

We could work on the plan.

:)

Right now I know of no reason not to reuse the old costs.

[KWorld]

Period service rifles:

UK: Snider conversions
Netherlands: Dutch Snider conversions
US: Trap-door Springfield conversions
France: Chassepot
Prussia: Dreyse
Austria-Hungary: Werndl-Holub
Russia: Krnka conversions and Berdan
Italy: Vetterli
Brazil: Comblain
Japan: Snider conversions
Ottoman: Snider conversions

[KWorld]

If we were going with an 1870 start, I'd anticipate starting budgets to be around $1000 and 200 BP. 

BP value subject to change, still looking at it, it may well grow because while the ships of the period may be relatively new (due to turnover), the facilities (ports, slips, & docks) mostly won't be truly new.  Upgraded and improved, surely, but new?  Not likely.

[Darman]

If we were going with an 1870 start, I'd anticipate starting budgets to be around $1000 and 200 BP. 

BP value subject to change, still looking at it, it may well grow because while the ships of the period may be relatively new (due to turnover), the facilities (ports, slips, & docks) mostly won't be truly new.  Upgraded and improved, surely, but new?  Not likely.

So that means our pre-start build dates will be 1865-1869?

[KWorld]

If we were going with an 1870 start, I'd anticipate starting budgets to be around $1000 and 200 BP. 

BP value subject to change, still looking at it, it may well grow because while the ships of the period may be relatively new (due to turnover), the facilities (ports, slips, & docks) mostly won't be truly new.  Upgraded and improved, surely, but new?  Not likely.

So that means our pre-start build dates will be 1865-1869?

We're getting pretty far afield from where SS is intended as it is, I'd suggest we simply set the construction date to 1870 for all pre-start builds.

[Darman]

We're getting pretty far afield from where SS is intended as it is, I'd suggest we simply set the construction date to 1870 for all pre-start builds.

fine by me

[KWorld]

We're getting pretty far afield from where SS is intended as it is, I'd suggest we simply set the construction date to 1870 for all pre-start builds.

fine by me

Not to mention that we don't (yet) have any engine rules for this far back.  ;)

[Jefgte]

That mean all SS dated in 1870 ?

No SS in 1871-72-73-74... ?

[Walter]

It's about pre 1870 ships. All ships 1870 and later would be simmed according to the rules.