Start style

[KWorld]

Would this hypothetical decaying empire have the original Spanish empire borders, or would the borders be even more expansive (more of North America, Africa, southern Asia, etc)?

1870s tech is brown powder for cannon with breech loading bag propellant, and black powder cartridges for rifles and pistols.  Over the 1880s, smokeless powder is invented, but it's just starting to come into service in 1890.

[Jefgte]

1870s tech is brown powder for cannon with breech loading bag propellant, and black powder cartridges for rifles and pistols.  Over the 1880s, smokeless powder is invented, but it's just starting to come into service in 1890.

1875-1880 are too old technos...
SS in 1885-86-87-88-89 & start in 1890 ... (predreanoughts are comming)

Jef

[Jefgte]

I do not like to cutting up an empire, especially a neighbor.
New land to explore and people to "civilize" seems more elegant.

But, I respect the choice of the majority of Players.


Jef

[KWorld]

1870s tech is brown powder for cannon with breech loading bag propellant, and black powder cartridges for rifles and pistols.  Over the 1880s, smokeless powder is invented, but it's just starting to come into service in 1890.

1875-1880 are too old technos...
SS in 1885-86-87-88-89 & start in 1890 ... (predreanoughts are comming)

Jef

The proposal that Darman put forward had the Spanish empire behind the tech curve of the "younger" empires, with the Spanish fleet with a maximum tech year of 1880, while the younger empires would be built up to 1890.  That's why I was mentioning 1870s techs...

[Darman]

I'll handle these in turns. 

Would this hypothetical decaying empire have the original Spanish empire borders, or would the borders be even more expansive (more of North America, Africa, southern Asia, etc)?

My opinion is that the bigger the empire the harder it will fall.  "the Spanish sovereign acted as monarch in a unitary manner over all his territories through a polisynodial system of Councils, but his power as king or lord varied from one territory to another one, since each territory retained its own particular administration and juridical configuration."  I have a map (from wikipedia) that gives a listing of territories that historically belonged to the Spanish Empire during different time periods.  There are so many smaller trading ports etc that I believe simply expanding and collecting several of those small single-port outposts into non-historical "colonies" would create larger administrative areas that would be easier to determine control of.  Inland Africa will remain unexplored, and the interior jungles of South America will remain unexplored as well.  Australia has not been discovered to be economically viable or exploitable yet. 
My idea of Spain's vital European territories: Kingdom of Castile (minus some territory in the north near the Pyrenees), Kingdom of Aragon, Kingdom of Portugal, Gibraltar (entire province on south coast). 
Spain's negotiable European territories: Balearic Is, Sardinia, Sicily, Naples, Spanish Lowlands (Belgium). 
My idea of Spain's overseas territories: Cape Verde Is, Azores Is, Canary Is, Spanish Sahara, Gold Coast, Spanish Guinea, Angola, Mombasa (in Kenya, trading port, could also be considered part of a coastal Swahili/Kenyan colony), Mozambique, Persian Gulf trading posts, Ceylon, West Coast of India, Philippines Is, Sulawesi Is, Lesser Sunda Is, Protectorate of Morocco, Falkland Is, [Chile + Peru=Viceroyalty of Peru], Coastal Brazil, Vieroyalty of New Grenada, [Central America + Mexico + California= Viceroyalty of New Spain], Louisiana, Florida, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, Bahamas, Windward Is. 

1870s tech is brown powder for cannon with breech loading bag propellant, and black powder cartridges for rifles and pistols.  Over the 1880s, smokeless powder is invented, but it's just starting to come into service in 1890.

This is perfectly acceptable to me.  Keep in mind I'm trying to create a quality vs quantity situation here.  Where Spain's Uber-Empire with its Invincible Spanish Loyalist Navy (ISLN for short) has to defend everywhere and they are convinced that they are the best navy out there. 

Would this hypothetical decaying empire have the original Spanish empire borders, or would the borders be even more expansive (more of North America, Africa, southern Asia, etc)?

To sum up my explanation from above: yes it will be more expansive, but only so I don't have to keep track of each individual trading post and fort.  I'd combine them, including territory in between outposts. 

I do not like to cutting up an empire, especially a neighbor.
New land to explore and people to "civilize" seems more elegant.
Jef

Don't view it as "cutting up a neighboring empire", rather, view it as liberating subjugated peoples from the unenlightened rule of the Hapsburg Monarchy. 

[Nobody]

My opinion:
The earlier the start the more plausible would be a "conquest of paradise".

My possible story:
Most parts of the world have been conquered by different colonial powers in the 15^th to 18^th century (similar to OTL). However, different to the history we know, they left whenever they had robbed the natives of their gold and silver.
Now in the second half of the 19^th century, countries around the world realize that the new worlds have a lot more to offer than valuables. They have the resources the ever growing industries needs.

The run on the resources, the "Conquest of Paradise", has begun!

[KWorld]

My opinion:
The earlier the start the more plausible would be a "conquest of paradise".

Oh, definitely.  My preference to keep our setting at 1885 or later tech as much as possible is because I don't want to have to deal with the interactions between wind and sailing ships, and before that we have to.

[Jefgte]

What about Uk & French Empires?

Did we reduce their historical territories?
---
Ok, first SS in 1885.

:)

[KWorld]

What about Uk & French Empires?

Did we reduce their historical territories?
---
Ok, first SS in 1885.

:)

<chuckle>  There's still some sorting out to do.  For example, right now we have 2 or 3 separate proposals for what we should do, be nice to get it sorted down to 1.

[Darman]

What about Uk & French Empires?

Did we reduce their historical territories?
---
Ok, first SS in 1885.

:)

Under the Spanish Empire scenario, there are no French or English empires.  My thinking is that empires give people advantages.  And the whole point of Spain having an Empire is that everyone wants to beat Spain down and gain their own empire that way. 

[Jefgte]

Under the Spanish Empire scenario, there are no French or English empires.  My thinking is that empires give people advantages.  And the whole point of Spain having an Empire is that everyone wants to beat Spain down and gain their own empire that way. 

That mean that some Uk, French, Germains...   "colonies" are free - Singapore - Tsing Tao - Falklands ...


Jef

[KWorld]

Under the Spanish Empire scenario, there are no French or English empires.  My thinking is that empires give people advantages.  And the whole point of Spain having an Empire is that everyone wants to beat Spain down and gain their own empire that way. 

That mean that some Uk, French, Germains...   "colonies" are free - Singapore - Tsing Tao - Falklands ...


Jef

And much larger ones, like the eastern US, Canada, India, Australia, etc.  Unless the historical Spanish empire is expanded, of course.

[Darman]

Under the Spanish Empire scenario, there are no French or English empires.  My thinking is that empires give people advantages.  And the whole point of Spain having an Empire is that everyone wants to beat Spain down and gain their own empire that way. 

That mean that some Uk, French, Germains...   "colonies" are free - Singapore - Tsing Tao - Falklands ...


Jef

And much larger ones, like the eastern US, Canada, India, Australia, etc.  Unless the historical Spanish empire is expanded, of course.

The Falklands were (probably somewhat loosely) considered part of the Spanish Empire at one point in the distant past.  I was surprised to see that.  But yes, the Eastern US, Canada, Seward's Folly, Australia and New Zealand, and most of India are all open.  As is most of Africa. 

[KWorld]

Here's a quick cut at a map based on this, modified from the Imperial Diplomacy map.

[Darman]

looks about right.