Start style

[KWorld]

OK, here's another question:

What sort of an initial start do we want?

1 - Even start (within the bounds of whatever map we choose): ie, everyone starts out with approximately the same resources and has some access to ways to grow.

2 - Semi-historical start (like 5.0): is, some countries are advantaged at the start, others are not, but everyone should have a chance of doing well in the future (if only those blasted fellow players don't mess things up).


Navalism 4.5 (where I first got involved in Navalism) was intended to be an example of #1 - everyone was starting out approximately equal, while some folks had a slight advantage from the map, it wasn't great.  Navalism 5 & WesWorld are both examples of 2 (though WW is farther from historical, in many ways), some countries are advantaged at the start if well-handled will probably be in good shape at the end.


If we want to go down the road of 1, we can, it will certainly have the nice change of everyone being on a similar footing at game-start.

[Jefgte]

Great question (s)

Other words:
Is Gibraltar British?
Are Acores, Canarias Islands Spanish ?
& Suez, Panama, Singapor, Pondichery ?...

Semi historical with modifs to have relatively equal chance for all players, I think...

Jef

[KWorld]

Great question (s)

Other words:
Is Gibraltar British?
Are Acores, Canarias Islands Spanish ?
& Suez, Panama, Singapor, Pondichery ?...

Semi historical with modifs to have relatively equal chance for all players, I think...

Jef

Assuming we decided to go down the #1 option road, and we used an Earth-based map (a change from 4.5), a lot would depend on what countries people wanted to play.  In an even-start scenario, there's no need for any particular country to be a major player if no one's playing it (unless we want to keep it in reserve for late-arrivals, of course).  So, for your examples, IF Great Britain was a major player, Gibraltar, Singapore, and part of India would probably be part of GB, but probably not if she isn't.  If Spain's going to be an active player, she'd probably control the Azores and Canaries, but not if she wasn't.  Odds are that Panama wouldn't be controlled by any major power at the start, unless someone wanted to play a South/Central American power (then it might be possible).

[Delta Force]

What about an 1872 start for a long game? That would be right after German and Italian unification and the Franco-Prussian War. It would also be solidly in the ironclad era, so we won't have to worry about sailing ships being around (at least for too long). The setup wouldn't be as unbalanced as it becomes later, at least between countries with less powerful navies. For example, the Ottoman Empire and Russia are still among the largest and most powerful navies in the 1870s, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy still has the glory and many of the ships involved in the Battle of Lissa.

[Jefgte]

DF is right, restart in 1872 is more logical with the Colonies conquest to do in the real history context.
But if we restart earlier, we are going to have armored frigates &
early battleships with 2T2 -30-35 cal...


Jef

[KWorld]

DF is right, restart in 1872 is more logical with the Colonies conquest.

There are some advantages to a start around 1870, certainly.  One thing to bear in mind, though, is that up until 1890 or so, most ships that are intended for deep sea operations are fitted with masts and sails, and you're still using black powder (and in some cases, muzzle loaders).

[Jefgte]

...most ships that are intended for deep sea operations are fitted with masts and sails.

We could fix the misc weight by 3% of the displacement x Kts coef.
10kts=> x1
12kts=>x1.2
14Kts=>x1.4
...
ex: 5000t - 14kts => 5000t x 3% = 150t x 1.4 = 210t

5000t-14Kts => misc weight for masts & sails = 210t

[KWorld]

If we don't want to deal with sailing ships (and I really don't want to have to moderate which way and how strong the winds are blowing), we can delay the end-of-the-century colony grabbing until a bit later than historical.

[Jefgte]

In 1880, we could SS without mast & sails...

[KWorld]

In 1880, we could SS without mast & sails...

Probably closer to 1885 for sea-going ships: see the RNs HMS Mersey and HMS Orlando classes, both commissioned after that date, and their preceding sail-equipped cousins HMS Calypso and HMS Imperieuse.

[Jefgte]

ex: 5000t - 14kts => 5000t x 3% = 150t x 1.4 = 210t

I like that fixed calculation for mast & sails.

Start early is not a problem...

For an early TB - 100t-20kts

100t x 3/100 x 2.0 => 6t mis weight

[KWorld]

Anyway, before we worry about a start year, let's get the style of sim figured out: referring back to the first post in this thread, do people want a Type 1 game or a Type 2 game?

[Delta Force]

Anyway, before we worry about a start year, let's get the style of sim figured out: referring back to the first post in this thread, do people want a Type 1 game or a Type 2 game?

I think we need to determine the year/setting before we can decide between types, as we can't have a historical start in some settings (especially altered geography). Depending on the era we could easily just use real world OOBs to start with if we really want to.

As for the sailing ships, I was referring more to the wooden hulled ships. I'm not sure how well Springsharp handles wooden hulled ships relative to metal hulled ones.

[KWorld]

Anyway, before we worry about a start year, let's get the style of sim figured out: referring back to the first post in this thread, do people want a Type 1 game or a Type 2 game?

I think we need to determine the year/setting before we can decide between types, as we can't have a historical start in some settings (especially altered geography). Depending on the era we could easily just use real world OOBs to start with if we really want to.

As for the sailing ships, I was referring more to the wooden hulled ships. I'm not sure how well Springsharp handles wooden hulled ships relative to metal hulled ones.

As far as ordering goes, it could be done either way: if we decide we want an even start, then we can decide on what we sort of a world we want and what time frame; if we decide we want a semi-historical start, then we don't need to worry about what sort of a world we want (that's already decided), but we still have to decide what time frame we want and HOW historical we want it.

I just want to get some things nailed down so we can get going again, rather than flailing around trying to figure what's going on (if anything).

[Jefgte]

I propose 1880
Maps are interresting.
Semi historical.
Fleet SS 1875-76-77-78-79

Have a look on maps
South America 1880
Africa 1880
...

Must conquests to do

Jef