Path forward

[KWorld]

[Copied from it's original thread so everyone can see it:]

Honestly, I think its dead and not coming back. We have to few interested for what we tried to undertake. This is the thrid restart that has not goten off the ground in a signinigent way, and I dont know about the rest of you, but I want stablity if Im going to invest the time in a sim like this. For those of you who wish to continue a sim like this, I would advise going to Wesworld (there site is experiencing some DNS problems that should be resolved soon if you cannot get access). There are pleanty of countries open, so you should all be able to fit. Im sorry we couldnt pull this off.

So, what do we want to do, guys?  I'm not interested in WesWorld at this point, myself, so......


Obviously, we need more ACTIVE participants.  But what do we need to do to get them?

[Jefgte]

IMO,

Simple rules & simple report spreadsheet to not use many many times vs private life (family-job-sports or girls....)

SS is cool & built a fleet year after year is very exiting.

I note too that wars shut down or kill Navalism restarts progression, so, war is a problem.

Jef could continu France in 1901 or restart @ every early date, no problemo for me.

I think that KWorld as Modo could be a great motivation.

Jef

[KWorld]

I think that KWorld as Modo could be a great motivation.

You're just coming up with that to keep people from giving you the job.  :)

[Walter]

It's probably more likely that if a player were to poke fun with the French OOC, he will severely punish that person IC by sinking his entire fleet in a violent hurricane. ;D

[Jefgte]

You're just coming up with that to keep people from giving you the job

Surely not.
1- Im always modeler first & after, SS for Navalism.
2- I have a too bad english to be modo.

Jef  ;)

[Delta Force]

What if we simplified the naval rules to let the game appeal to a wider audience? There are a lot more people interested in roleplaying and nation simulation games than naval simulation games. I didn't even know there were naval simulation games until I stumbled across this site while doing research for a nation simulation. If you want to go that route I can help out with revising the rules and I also have a friend who could host the site if you want to do that too. Changing to a nation simulation with detailed naval rules would change the playerbase, but it would be a much larger one.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd have suggested reducing the non-naval stuff, myself, but that's a different set of priorities there. 

I remain interested in a minor power like Belgium for a full sim; for a more focused sim with less army/air/tech/spy stuff, I could consider moving upward a bit.

[Delta Force]

The issue right now is that Navalism and Wesworld are the only naval simulation games on the internet (that I know of). Unlike nation simulation games and roleplaying games there are no other games we can really go to which would have people able to jump right into the game upon joining, they would have to learn everything. We don't have to take away the ability to design ships and such to make the game appeal to a wider audience, just the necessity of it. If someone wants to build a historical ship they should be able to do so without having to simulate it.

Perhaps we could even do a hybrid of nation simulation games and forums where people design ocean liners, airliners, tanks, etc. as is done on navalism and sites associated with the online game Cybernations. The people who play the nations could buy things from manufacturers, so the British Empire player could ask Vickers and other companies to present designs for a new class of dreadnought.

[KWorld]

I'd have suggested reducing the non-naval stuff, myself, but that's a different set of priorities there. 

I remain interested in a minor power like Belgium for a full sim; for a more focused sim with less army/air/tech/spy stuff, I could consider moving upward a bit.

Heh, maybe we could convince you to move up to Austria-Hungary?  :)

[KWorld]

On the issue of people who are not being able or interested in simming their own ships being able to play, I think we essentially allow that already: players certainly have asked for help in simming ships before, even if they intended to produce the resulting designs in their country and not as part of a license-production agreement.  Most of the current Austro-Hungarian fleet started out as designs I made for Miketr, for instance.


But if we need to make that more clear, I'm sure we can do that.

[Darman]

I know one aborted re-start of the sim we started right around when the age of steam was beginning to take over the maritime powers.  What if we started around 1800?  Get some fresh blood, work them in as we work through the end of the age of sail and on into the age of steam and steel?

[Walter]

Might be an idea, though how do you suggest we sim the pre 1850 ships? Or do we stick to historical figures as given on the internet for the various sailing ships that actually existed? Do we keep it simple and stick to Wesworld's material cost payment only or do we stick to the slightly more complex material + $ cost of Navalism? Do we focus it purely on naval stuff and kind of keep track of the non-naval stuff like Wesworld (i.e. it exists, but you don't pay for it, just keep it reasonable) or do we keep the more complex Navalism style where we pay for both naval stuff and army stuff (and aviation stuff when the time comes) and keep track of populations and ICs and revenue? Do we use the complex tech tree stuff and research from navalism or do we keep it simple and stick to what history gives us? How would the startup setup look like? All players equal or do we stick to big, medium and small nations? Do we kill off the current sim or do we let it roll alongside the current one so new players have an option to go for something 19th century or something 20th century?

For me it doesn't really matter what we do. I will just tag along. :)

[Jefgte]

IMO, If we change rules, we restart.

1860 (Gloire - HMS Warrior) to have all technologies developpements.

I prefer essentially built a fleet.
Calculations for army & economie are not my preference.

Jef

[KWorld]

IMO, If we change rules, we restart.

1860 (Gloire - HMS Warrior) to have all technologies developpements.

I prefer essentially built a fleet.
Calculations for army & economie are not my preference.

If we're going to use semi-historical Earth as a setting, I don't see how we can avoid armies and economics, because some countries (Russia, Germany, Austria, Ottomans, etc) are, by the nature of their location in the world, more army focused than navy.  Even WesWorld has economic rules, they're just more limited than Navalism's.  I can see some tweaks to the current rules, sure, but I'm not really in favor of going lighter (and as I recall the discussion last fall, the group as it was then composed wasn't interested in going too rules-light.

I'd be hesitant to go further back in time than we are currently at in a restart, just to avoid the "that's a proto-Dreadnought" "no, it's not" arguments.  Not to mention that, if we did go further back, then there are going to be arguments in favor of having rules for railroads and their expansion.

[Jefgte]

If we're going to use semi-historical Earth as a setting, I don't see how we can avoid armies and economics, because some countries (Russia, Germany, Austria, Ottomans, etc) are, by the nature of their location in the world, more army focused than navy.  Even WesWorld has economic rules, they're just more limited than Navalism's.  I can see some tweaks to the current rules, sure, but I'm not really in favor of going lighter (and as I recall the discussion last fall, the group as it was then composed wasn't interested in going too rules-light.

I'd be hesitant to go further back in time than we are currently at in a restart, just to avoid the "that's a proto-Dreadnought" "no, it's not" arguments.  Not to mention that, if we did go further back, then there are going to be arguments in favor of having rules for railroads and their expansion.

Ok for me, Just minor adjustements to come.

Jef  :)