New French Battleships

[Jefgte]

UB is over now ?


Jef

[maddox]

AoN ships don't need to carry a Upper belt.  But, because you ask so nicely.

Grande petite, French GBB laid down 1920

Displacement:
   35.000 t light; 37.097 t standard; 40.649 t normal; 43.491 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 91,86 ft (Bulges 111,55 ft) x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   210,00 m / 209,00 m x 28,00 m (Bulges 34,00 m)  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,54" / 420 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2.755,78lbs / 1.250,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 22.934 lbs / 10.403 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   438,85 ft / 133,76 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   246,83 ft / 75,23 m   11,50 ft / 3,51 m
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   438,85 ft / 133,76 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 98% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,50" / 64 mm   438,85 ft / 133,76 m   28,17 ft / 8,59 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      15,0" / 381 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 49.309 shp / 36.784 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.394 tons

Complement:
   1.430 - 1.860

Cost:
   £8,204 million / $32,816 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.386 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 14.980 tons, 36,9%
      - Belts: 6.150 tons, 15,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.144 tons, 2,8%
      - Armament: 3.799 tons, 9,3%
      - Armour Deck: 3.505 tons, 8,6%
      - Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.724 tons, 4,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.459 tons, 38,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.649 tons, 13,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57.324 lbs / 26.002 Kg = 25,4 x 16,5 " / 420 mm shells or 11,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 20,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,630
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (18%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Quarterdeck (18%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,74 ft / 6,02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,6%
   Waterplane Area: 47.371 Square feet or 4.401 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 220 lbs/sq ft or 1.077 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,25
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
25  tons ERADe
25  tons Long range Marconi
50  tons crew comfort
50 tons specialised night fighting equipment
50 tons not assigned

[Jefgte]

Ok, UB is not neccessary.

so you could have
Ends 152
Main-100%-(18ft ok)



Jef

[maddox]

I like High belts, as long they protect everything important.

Now, this makes you happy Jefgt?

Grande petite, French GBB laid down 1920

Displacement:
   35.003 t light; 37.101 t standard; 40.653 t normal; 43.495 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   688,98 ft / 685,70 ft x 91,86 ft (Bulges 111,55 ft) x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   210,00 m / 209,00 m x 28,00 m (Bulges 34,00 m)  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,54" / 420 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2.755,78lbs / 1.250,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 22.934 lbs / 10.403 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   479,99 ft / 146,30 m   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
   Ends:   5,00" / 127 mm   205,69 ft / 62,69 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,50" / 64 mm   479,99 ft / 146,30 m   28,00 ft / 8,53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      15,0" / 381 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15,00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 49.313 shp / 36.787 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.395 tons

Complement:
   1.430 - 1.860

Cost:
   £8,204 million / $32,817 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.386 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 15.122 tons, 37,2%
      - Belts: 6.192 tons, 15,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.243 tons, 3,1%
      - Armament: 3.799 tons, 9,3%
      - Armour Deck: 3.506 tons, 8,6%
      - Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.724 tons, 4,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.351 tons, 37,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.650 tons, 13,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 420 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57.334 lbs / 26.006 Kg = 25,4 x 16,5 " / 420 mm shells or 11,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 20,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,630
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,19 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,61 ft / 5,98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,6%
   Waterplane Area: 47.374 Square feet or 4.401 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1.070 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,24
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
25  tons ERADe
25  tons Long range Marconi
50  tons crew comfort
50 tons specialised night fighting equipment
20 tons not assigned

[maddox]

Successors to the Bretagnes, and replacements for the aging Dantons.

Champagne/Auvergne/Forez/Landau, French Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   29.998 t light; 31.897 t standard; 34.830 t normal; 37.176 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   692,26 ft / 688,98 ft x 114,83 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   211,00 m / 210,00 m x 35,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
     9 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1919 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17.761 lbs / 8.056 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   344,49 ft / 105,00 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 77% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   344,49 ft / 105,00 m   24,76 ft / 7,55 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   12,0" / 305 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44.798 shp / 33.419 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.279 tons

Complement:
   1.274 - 1.657

Cost:
   £6,562 million / $26,246 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.052 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 11.180 tons, 32,1%
      - Belts: 4.091 tons, 11,7%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 631 tons, 1,8%
      - Armament: 2.986 tons, 8,6%
      - Armour Deck: 3.173 tons, 9,1%
      - Conning Tower: 299 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.669 tons, 4,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14.696 tons, 42,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.832 tons, 13,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54.443 lbs / 24.695 Kg = 32,5 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 10,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 8,1 ft / 2,5 m
   Roll period: 16,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,587
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (25%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,70 ft / 5,70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,6%
   Waterplane Area: 57.167 Square feet or 5.311 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1.004 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The replacements for the aging Dantons.

Misc weigth
250 tons FC
25 tons ERADe
50 tons crew comfort
75 tons to be assigned

[The Rock Doctor]

That's not a very long belt - only half the ship's waterline is protected.

[maddox]

Good enough to protect everything important. And the middle part of the ship, after all, is the fullest. Buyancy is garantied.

[Ithekro]

Looks like those Rohirrim 17" guns projected some time back are needed after all.

[P3D]

Looks like those Rohirrim 17" guns projected some time back are needed after all.

With Rohan signing the Washington Richmond treaty pretty unlikely.

[Tanthalas]

Looks like those Rohirrim 17" guns projected some time back are needed after all.

With Rohan signing the Washington Richmond treaty pretty unlikely.

oh Rohan could still go 17" but I was projecting 15.5/50 with somthing like a 2250 pound shell (under development) as Rohans next big gun. 

[maddox]

I see, need thicker deck armor. Time for tumblehome again.

[Ithekro]

Development does not always mean actual use when it comes to artillery.  It would be more a status thing at that point since so far (to my knowledge) there has been no direct area of conflict that would involve French and Rohirrim ships engaging each other.

Also one can probably get a pair of treaty sized battleship on 40,000 tons armed with some 17" guns, though 15.5" is more practical...plus one can place more of them on a hull.

(Rohan oddity note:  For whatever reason I was increasing the barrel lengths by 6 calibers on each increase rather than 5.  So the next size up from the 42cal would be a 48cal followed by a 54caliber cannon)

[TexanCowboy]

One incident of conflict. The Profitable incident.

[maddox]

TUMBLEHOME TIME

Champagne, French Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   25.000 t light; 26.790 t standard; 29.397 t normal; 31.483 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626,64 ft / 623,36 ft x 72,18 ft (Bulges 104,99 ft) x 27,56 ft (normal load)
   191,00 m / 190,00 m x 22,00 m (Bulges 32,00 m)  x 8,40 m

Armament:
      9 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,34" / 34,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,20lbs / 0,54kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17.756 lbs / 8.054 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   405,18 ft / 123,50 m   16,50 ft / 5,03 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,00" / 51 mm   405,18 ft / 123,50 m   25,61 ft / 7,81 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40.724 shp / 30.380 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.693 tons

Complement:
   1.122 - 1.459

Cost:
   £6,133 million / $24,530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.052 tons, 7,0%
   Armour: 9.662 tons, 32,9%
      - Belts: 3.962 tons, 13,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 768 tons, 2,6%
      - Armament: 2.721 tons, 9,3%
      - Armour Deck: 1.925 tons, 6,5%
      - Conning Tower: 287 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 1.517 tons, 5,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.369 tons, 38,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.397 tons, 15,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32.226 lbs / 14.617 Kg = 19,2 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 6,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 23,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,74 ft / 8,15 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,23 ft / 5,25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89,1%
   Waterplane Area: 32.009 Square feet or 2.974 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1.036 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[maddox]

One incident of conflict. The Profitable incident.

Nope, Officialy the armed merchant sunk by Queen Emeraldas and Fürst Bismarck was not a French Vessel, but a pirate that used the ruse of the French flag to get away.

Also, it was under the premiership of the certified madman Premier Palpaté.