New French Battleships

[The Rock Doctor]

The occupied internal space is considerably shorter than the ship's belt, so it's probably an adequate approximation.

Triunfante's the same way, though I came to the final belt length by measuring pixels in my drawing of the ship.

[maddox]

A British 13.5" twin from Iron Duke is according to my messurments 20.3 m long

A QE 15" twin isn't much larger with 21.5m. Not surprisingly, as the 15" 42 caliber is based on the 13.5" 45 cal.

[Korpen]

Korpen... bluntly, what if he DOESN'T WANT to save that weight?
I mean, he's designed a good ship, and the art isn't actually to scale. Lots of room for error as to whether or not the drawing there is actually giving you a good impression as to what it looks like.

Then he don't. :) It was just a suggestion, and on second thought, i think lengthening the belt would be a better idea then deepening it...

To be a bit harsh, i think a drawing that is totally incorrect is worse then no drawing at all. I might be cursing in the church now; but I think the primary concern of a drawing is to show how the information from springsharp comes together, or not. If the art look good is of secondary concern.

SS might not be perfect, but it asumes that the turrets will fit; if it's good enough that way, it's good enough for the game, I guess.

The problem is that springsharp do not assume anything, as it has no real concept of how much space things really take on a ship, and this goes for everything, not just guns. This is why springsharp handles situations were volume rather then weight is central pretty badly.
I mean, I can design a 120m long ship with 150 15cm guns in hull casemates, springsharp think that is fine. This is why I see sketches as drawing as so usefull, they work as a reality check.

If we knew the EXACT length of, asy, the British 15" turret, we could see if this would fit.
Anyone here know that or have a site we can use to find it?

P3D posted info about diameters in the knowledge base.
But is do not think millimetric accuracy is needed in drawings, but within a meter or around there seems reasonable.

And this ship has one that covers 65% of her length.

Yes, difference is significant.

[Carthaginian]

And this ship has one that covers 65% of her length.

Yes, difference is significant.

Really?
Using guess-timates provided by Maddox's data, we can say that Agincourt would have used about 140m+(3m*6)=158m- call it an even 160m- for deckspace taken up by turrets. This would mean aproximately 78% of her hull had to be covered by the belt; that's in line with your quoted figure; it's actually a bit much, because I'm using the 13.5" turret instead of a 12".

Well and good, all her turrets are protected.

I'll use the same formula for Maddox's ship now- (length of turrets)+[(3m 'swing clearance')*(number of turrets-1)]- and see what we come up with. (5x21.5m)+(3m*4)=119.5... call it 120m. Now, 65% of 220m is 143m. Thus, it's a pretty safe bet that- though it's a tight squeeze- all the turrets could fit on centerline with 23m to spare. Not a LOT, but it still can.

So, he COULD build the ship comfortably, if he gave another 10m or so of belt.
Not too far off in the grand scheme of things.

[P3D]

Based on the drawing, the main belt should be 185m long not 143.

SS2 might allow you some design, but if you cannot make a drawing that shows how it could be arranged, then that design should be unfeasible.

The second drawing has ~145m belt, but the turret firing arcs are just prohibitively narrow to be acceptable. The ship would barely have full elevation range in a 90 degrees firing arc. That few hundred tons superfiring costs should be paid, it is about 2% of the ship cost. At least the design is ugly enough ;), although honestly I does not know why anyone could sabotage the French navy by building this ship without raising enough complaints and ridicule within the naval establishment to cancel the ship before laying down.

[Tanthalas]

PLease not the super fiering version PLEASE

[Ithekro]

I resimmed my earlier Rohirrim battleships based on my drawing after I found out the belts were not long enough to cover the barbettes.

There is no scale on this drawing, but those guns look really big for some reason (QE big).  The belts are shown on the drawing as being long enough, but they may not match the SS file.

[Tanthalas]

=P the original drawing was fairly accurate, but that ship is on about revision number 16 or 17, accuracy drops in masive amounts with each revision...

[The Rock Doctor]

Thanks to Tanthalas, again.

You're thanking him for that?

I kid, I kid.

[Ithekro]

It could be worse.  Oh yes, it could be worse.

[P3D]

You're thanking him for that?

I kid, I kid.

French Navy doctrine takes the ugliness of ship into account for combat strength.

Any spotter looking at those ships will have to make a serious effort keeping an eye on the ship and not faint, therefore reducing spotting accuracy at the critical first salvoes. This effect is similar to that of the dazzle camouflage, only it also works for stereoscopic rangefinders.
At short ranges it works as well, affecting all the enemy crew looking at the ship (sanity rolls etc).

[Korpen]

You're thanking him for that?

I kid, I kid.

French Navy doctrine takes the ugliness of ship into account for combat strength.

Any spotter looking at those ships will have to make a serious effort keeping an eye on the ship and not faint, therefore reducing spotting accuracy at the critical first salvoes. This effect is similar to that of the dazzle camouflage, only it also works for stereoscopic rangefinders.
At short ranges it works as well, affecting all the enemy crew looking at the ship (sanity rolls etc).

Note to self: Only put Officers and men with a SAN of at least 25 on rangfinding and spotting duties vs the French...

But i do not really finds the ship THAT ugly, but then again, i think most french pre-dreads look cool...

[P3D]

Note to self: Only put Officers and men with a SAN of at least 25 on rangfinding and spotting duties vs the French...

Or select ones with 0 sanity who developed a mania for accurate spotting.

On an unrelated comment, why would you think that the capital of Maoria is not called Ralieh (one of the several alternative spellings)? Two completely unrelated maps follows.

[Tanthalas]

Redrawn, for about the 500th time...
Scale is 1 pix = 1 foot


YAY it all fit

[Ithekro]

It is getting uglier as well.  The huge stock-like tower seems French to me.

And what is this map question business about?  I don't understand the question.