New French Battleships

[maddox]

After the troubles that France has undergone, and the political games awarding , or especialy not awarding ship builders contracts La patrie has gotten a seriously outdated fleet. With the strongest units, the Danton Class, being designed and build in the late 19th century. 

With the lessons learned from watching others and the losses of France, Premier Paixhans, and the new minister of defence Dupuytren are looking very closely in the new role of the Marine National. 

To replace the 4 elderly battleships of the Formidable class , what are in need for a refit, several shipbuilders have send in proposals.

Not to upset the limited Naval budget, the new class cannot use more than 47000 tons displacement.

Design One, from the Chantiers de st Nazaire

Chanson, French Battleship laid down 1906

Displacement:
   14.076 t light; 14.878 t standard; 17.547 t normal; 19.683 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   446,19 ft / 442,91 ft x 88,58 ft x 27,56 ft (normal load)
   136,00 m / 135,00 m x 27,00 m  x 8,40 m

Armament:
      4 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns (4x2 guns), 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1901 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns (8 mounts), 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns in single mounts, 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.538 lbs / 2.965 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   277,23 ft / 84,50 m   11,08 ft / 3,38 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   149,26 ft / 45,49 m   11,08 ft / 3,38 m
     16,42 ft / 5,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   277,23 ft / 84,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 96% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   440,00 ft / 134,11 m   30,00 ft / 9,14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   8,00" / 203 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   8,00" / 203 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 24.206 shp / 18.058 Kw = 20,26 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.805 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   761 - 990

Cost:
   £1,369 million / $5,477 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 755 tons, 4,3%
   Armour: 5.540 tons, 31,6%
      - Belts: 2.482 tons, 14,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 488 tons, 2,8%
      - Armament: 1.122 tons, 6,4%
      - Armour Deck: 1.288 tons, 7,3%
      - Conning Tower: 160 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.729 tons, 9,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.701 tons, 32,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.471 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24.424 lbs / 11.079 Kg = 20,4 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 4,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Stern:      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,69 ft / 5,09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109,2%
   Waterplane Area: 27.848 Square feet or 2.587 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 728 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,24
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

A variation on the proposed extremely expensive F class battleships, using the excelent 340mm guns and 2 of the UKA provided 12000 HP turbine units. By sacrificing 1 main turret the hull can be kept smaller so 3 ships of this class will replace the 4 elderly Formidables.

The secundary turrets are the same as used on the Ville Class AC's

The 350 tons misc weight represent the marconi set  and the command facilities for a flagship.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Secondary battery is too weak - 4 guns a side is not enough. Two shafts is IMO ahistorical, and dangerous - use 4 5000shp turbines for 17-18 knots. These guys are neither chasing anybody, nor running away. They are there to slug it out.
Use the weight savings on armour and secondaries. And keep the imported turbines for ACs - they need speed.
Just my two Groschen.
Borys

[maddox]

Borys, You're right in most respects.  I myself would go for an 18kts battleline.
And that is perfectly acceptable with homegrown turbines.

In effect, France wants visual imposing ships. But that's difficult with the "budget" constraints I'm imposing on myself...

Aria, French Battleship laid down 1906

Displacement:
   16.186 t light; 17.180 t standard; 20.065 t normal; 22.373 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   479,00 ft / 475,72 ft x 95,14 ft x 27,56 ft (normal load)
   146,00 m / 145,00 m x 29,00 m  x 8,40 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns (8x2 guns), 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1901 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns in single mounts, 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 10.280 lbs / 4.663 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   277,23 ft / 84,50 m   11,08 ft / 3,38 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   149,26 ft / 45,49 m   11,08 ft / 3,38 m
     49,23 ft / 15,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   277,23 ft / 84,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 90% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   440,00 ft / 134,11 m   30,00 ft / 9,14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,0" / 279 mm   8,00" / 203 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   8,00" / 203 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 11,00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 16.299 shp / 12.159 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.193 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   842 - 1.095

Cost:
   £1,731 million / $6,924 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.192 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 6.472 tons, 32,3%
      - Belts: 2.529 tons, 12,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 488 tons, 2,4%
      - Armament: 1.801 tons, 9,0%
      - Armour Deck: 1.479 tons, 7,4%
      - Conning Tower: 175 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.164 tons, 5,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.157 tons, 35,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.879 tons, 19,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28.629 lbs / 12.986 Kg = 23,9 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Stern:      14,47 ft / 4,41 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,69 ft / 5,09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,4%
   Waterplane Area: 31.976 Square feet or 2.971 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 819 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,04
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

With only a little growth in size this ship will use the first French build turbines. Using 3 main 340 gun turrets and 8 Ville class secundaries

The 200 tons misc weight represent the marconi set and the command facilities for a flagship.

[P3D]

The first design was step back 10 years. If you don't have medium-caliber armament, you  need three turrets. Secondary should be 16x140mm or 12x165mm.
6000nm@14kts is excessive. Scale it back to 12 knots - until you have oil firing this is only a waste of dispacement.
350t of misc weight - for what? 100t should be enough for most of what you need - including "special" installations.

I think battleships should be seconds priority behing Armored/Battlecruisers. France has to "up" the DKB designs if only for national prestige - that is BCs with 6x340mm guns, with 24 knots. It is feasible on a *gasp* 20000t light displacement.
Torpedo bulkhead is not strong enough. For battleship it should be 35-40mm.

Armor: use 11.55", 8.4" 4.2" 7.35", 10.50" thickness for the belt, and 2.3" or 2.9" for the deck.

18" knot ships are a stopgap measure only. Won't a full 20000HP give you one knots?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
IMO better.
Are 165mm deck mounts intentional, or a miss-click?

IMO anything above 38mm for TBS is a waste - it is a splinter catcher.

Borys

[Earl822]

Heavily redesigned version of Napoleon the Great, only 1500t a ship more expensive.

Chanson, France battleship laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   15,540 t light; 16,590 t standard; 18,911 t normal; 20,767 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 27.35 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 24.38 m  x 8.34 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6.50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137.06lbs / 62.17kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.47lbs / 4.75kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,758 lbs / 4,426 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,271 shp / 17,360 Kw = 20.35 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,177 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   806 - 1,048

Cost:
   £1.654 million / $6.614 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,127 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 6,295 tons, 33.3 %
      - Belts: 2,906 tons, 15.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 296 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 1,505 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,420 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 168 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,164 tons, 6.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,804 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,371 tons, 17.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,639 lbs / 12,083 Kg = 22.2 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 4.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.14 ft / 5.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,707 Square feet or 2,853 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

Well, 60mm torpedo bulkhead can mean void-fuel-fuel-void with 3x10mm and 1x30mm plates but that's at least two BB Architecture techs away.

[maddox]

It's a great idea Earl822.  The Hull of Napoleon the Great is rusting away on the slip. So, why not using that as a stop gap messure.

Also, combined with the imput from the others this 165m long ship will serve the Purpose of being "Visible" perfectly.  Again, the secundaries are the Ville Class 165mm double mount and hoists. With a twist...

Major change is draft. The way lighter engines raise the ship with .5m, and give enough room for an extensive secundary belt. The whole ship is up to the gills in 8" armor.

Napoleon the Great, France battleship laid down 1903 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   18.438 t light; 19.454 t standard; 21.243 t normal; 22.675 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541,34 ft / 541,34 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 95,14 ft) x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   165,00 m / 165,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 29,00 m)  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns (8x2 guns), 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1903 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10.259 lbs / 4.653 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   300,00 ft / 91,44 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   8,00" / 203 mm   241,33 ft / 73,56 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 85% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,50" / 38 mm   540,21 ft / 164,66 m   25,59 ft / 7,80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      8,66" / 220 mm
   2nd:   8,00" / 203 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      6,00" / 152 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,30" / 58 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19.826 shp / 14.790 Kw = 19,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.221 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   879 - 1.143

Cost:
   £1,783 million / $7,134 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.190 tons, 5,6%
   Armour: 7.949 tons, 37,4%
      - Belts: 3.863 tons, 18,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 767 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 1.802 tons, 8,5%
      - Armour Deck: 1.319 tons, 6,2%
      - Conning Tower: 198 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 991 tons, 4,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.058 tons, 37,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.806 tons, 13,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34.361 lbs / 15.586 Kg = 28,7 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 7,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 18,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,61

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Stern:      17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,37 ft / 6,21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,5%
   Waterplane Area: 30.987 Square feet or 2.879 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 835 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,79
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

The hull from Napoleon the Great, with the knowlegde gathered all over the world

An extensive redesign with the first French domestic turbines and the succesfull moint and hoist 165mm from the Ville Class AC as main secundary mount.

The 250 tons misc weight represent the marconi and the power room for the hydraulics needed to give the secundaries the capacity to turn fast enough.

[Ithekro]

Scary to see the Arcadia's half-sister/cousin come back out again after all she went through.

[P3D]

Er... French does not have domestic turbines. You have to import even 5000HP turbines.

By the rules if you consider 6.5" guns a medium-caliber gun, then you can put them on turrets with barbettes on the ship. But not mount with hoists unless they' have no more than splinter armor (1").

Or if it is a small-caliber, "secondary" gun, then it will have to go into the casemates.

[maddox]

@ Ithekro

The only relation Napoleon the Great has with the Napoleon III class is the turrets.

In no other respect she has any connection with those ships.

Also, I believe, with this ship France has an eycatcher again.

@ P³D, redesigning during dinner....

[Ithekro]

Ahhh....  Good to know.

Would using existing Armored Cruiser turrets make any difference P3D?


But will she still be ugly?

[Desertfox]

Cause its in the rules and if its in the rules you have to live with it even if it makes absolutely no sense.

Maddox your going to have to come up with something bigger if NS builds Enterprise...

[maddox]

Just had to keep my head with the rules. If I don't follow them, why should anyone else?

Retry, and it just didn't get better. 
Changed the 4 5000 hp turbines in 2 12000 hp- from the 30 that are being delivered by the UKA.
Removed the 8 double 165mm moint and hoists  in favor of 2 275mm main gun turrets.
Reduced the armor on the upper belt and the ends with 1"
Introduced 105mm QF guns in casemates. The 70mm QF get a spot on the superstructure and main gun roofs.
Reduced the misc weight- what was partialy to give the 165mm guns the power they need.
And a few other tweaks to get the weight ok.

Napoleon the Great, France battleship laid down 1903 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   18.522 t light; 19.454 t standard; 21.243 t normal; 22.675 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541,34 ft / 541,34 ft x 82,02 ft (Bulges 95,14 ft) x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   165,00 m / 165,00 m x 25,00 m (Bulges 29,00 m)  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (2x2 guns), 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1903 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1903 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11.026 lbs / 5.001 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   300,00 ft / 91,44 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   7,00" / 178 mm   240,00 ft / 73,15 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
     1,34 ft / 0,41 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 85% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,50" / 38 mm   540,21 ft / 164,66 m   25,59 ft / 7,80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   8,00" / 203 mm      8,00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   9,00" / 229 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   3,00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1,50" / 38 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 24.009 shp / 17.911 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.221 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   879 - 1.143

Cost:
   £1,896 million / $7,585 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.286 tons, 6,1%
   Armour: 7.605 tons, 35,8%
      - Belts: 3.642 tons, 17,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 767 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 1.851 tons, 8,7%
      - Armour Deck: 1.147 tons, 5,4%
      - Conning Tower: 198 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.200 tons, 5,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.331 tons, 39,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.721 tons, 12,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31.865 lbs / 14.454 Kg = 26,6 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 6,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 18,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,61

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Stern:      17,68 ft / 5,39 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,37 ft / 6,21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,5%
   Waterplane Area: 30.987 Square feet or 2.879 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 863 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,84
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

The hull from Napoleon the Great, with the knowledge gathered all over the world
The 2 12 000 HP turbines are the first ones delivered by the UKA.


The 100 tons misc weight represent the marconi and flag facilities.

[Earl822]

Thats more French ;D