Accelerated research rules

[KWorld]

Are the rules that Walter's mentioned below still supposed to be in the rules?  Or were they removed when the mods came to the conclusion not to allow accelerated research?

the earliest you can have a 6" twin (using a mount and hoist style mount) would be 1912 H1.

The rules also state...

If research of a  technology is started before the listed year, for every two years difference from the game year, the research will take six months longer. This time is added to the months prior to success chances being rolled.

... so, unless I read it wrong, H1 1912 is not the earliest you can have a 6" twin mount. You can have it before that...

[Tanthalas]

Honestly im not sure man, Im gona throw up a post about it in the moderator section see what the other 2 have to say, but for now assume that it is (thats this moderators opinion anyway) dont set anything in stone (im not but I am making general plans based on that section)  the way I see it that isnt to unfair to anyone, which was my complaint about the other proposed systems (large powers could abuse any system to allow vastly accelerated tech but this just allows you to start somthing a bit early and maybee get it a turn or 2 before you would anyway).

[Walter]

Well, the way I read the rules, if you plan things correctly, you could have 1930s techs in the 1910s... Perhaps an idea to set some limits to it?

[Tanthalas]

technicly your right walter, if you were willing to eat the extreamly long development times (and remember you have to research all the preceading techs) I think perhaps just limiting it to no more than 2-4 years in advance would cover that potential problem though.  Just enough to let someone get a little bit ahead on a tech that interests them (especialy with all the freking engine techs)

[Walter]

Few ideas pulled out of my head hat:
- Max number of years you can start the tech earlier. Tan's suggestion of 2-4 years sounds about right to me. Definitely no more than 5 years.
- Limited number of techs that can be researched in advance at once per half year.
- Limited number of 'declared' techs from the list that can be researched in advance (i.e. your nation is 'Strong' in tech X and only that particular tech can be researched in advance)
- For every 'declared' tech researched in advance, another 'declared' tech will be considered a weakness of a nation so can only be researched at a date later than given (i.e. your nation is 'Strong' in tech X but 'Weak' in tech Y).
- Additional military $ to be assigned to the research of the advanced tech (for example an additional $1 per year earlier).

[Tanthalas]

I actualy like that proposal Walter, so Just as an example (making sure I realy do get it)

Italia could be strong in Propulsion (fits with my speed junky status) and as a trade off I could be week in say Aircraft (fits historicly Italian aircraft were junk)  this would allow me to start researching Propulsion techs say 2 years in advance (with the already in place restriction to development time) for $2.00 per turn instead of the existing $1.00, while I would only be able to research Aircraft techs 2 years after everyone else (still at $1.00 per turn however)

did I get your Idea right?

[snip]

Im strangly attracted to it.

[Tanthalas]

I would propose however if we decide to go with that that noone can have more than one (or posibly 2) declared techs, this would also give us a reason for trade (example England buying Italian engines and Italia buying British guns)

Im strangly attracted to it.

[Walter]

did I get your Idea right?

Yes, I believe you did.

There is also this bit in the rules (below the 'advanced' tech bit):

If research is started after the listed year, every two years that have passed since the listed year will take six months of the research time down to a minimum of 12 months.

... so for your weak tech(s), it is only natural that this would shift as well.

I would propose however if we decide to go with that that noone can have more than one (or posibly 2) declared techs

I was thinking 2 or 3. Perhaps it is an idea to use 1 Naval Tech and 1 Land/Air Tech?
Should be noted that with your example of "Italia could be strong in Propulsion" that there are something like 6 types of propulsion so to be fair, you can only select one of them.

this would also give us a reason for trade (example England buying Italian engines and Italia buying British guns)

I think I have seen this mentioned before, but how would you apply this kind of trade to the army units, Mobilization and Reserves, Motorization and Signals/Intelligence?

[Tanthalas]

as far as everything you posted I generaly agree, but to the techs other than Naval im not sure that trade would apply to them.  We are Primarily a Naval sim after all so not everything can/will work for the portions of the sim outside that area.  People could still develop them early if they so chose they just wouldnt be as usefull (I still like the idea of being able tu sell somthing im strong in and buy stuff im week in from over seas)

[Nobody]

I thought we abandoned all the "research ahead of time"-rules?

I do like some of the suggestions though, but Tan, bad aircrafts (which we don't have anyway yet) are not a fair exchange for better engines.

[Tanthalas]

LOL it was just an example (pulled more or less out of thin air).  Realisticly I would proly go with Submarines, or DDs, or CLs, or posibly airships (although I do have some long range plans for them)

I thought we abandoned all the "research ahead of time"-rules?

I do like some of the suggestions though, but Tan, bad aircrafts (which we don't have anyway yet) are not a fair exchange for better engines.

[Nobody]

To make it fair, you should probably have to name say 3 fields which you are interested in. Then we take a dice and see in which one you can go ahead. Then roll again and find out in which will be left behind.

[Tanthalas]

Could do it that way, truth told though I have no real objection to people minmaxing themselves.  Personaly I have no real interest in subs unless we decide to sim them using the wesworld system, im also not realy interested in Mines or Chemical weapons.  So for me taking a hit on one of them isnt a big deal (odds are ill be behind on all 3 anyway), Propulsion tech though that fits well with my speed junky thing so I would likley make it my one ahead of the curve tech at the expence of say Submarines.

To make it fair, you should probably have to name say 3 fields which you are interested in. Then we take a dice and see in which one you can go ahead. Then roll again and find out in which will be left behind.

[Darman]

What if we used the dice idea.  Put forward three techs.  Roll the dice. 

One tech is advanced research 2 years. 
One tech is behind 2 years. 
The remaining tech is ahead 1 year. 

Reason being so that you come out ahead overall and its not EXACTLY even.  That way you aren't totally gambling on which tech comes out ahead because technically you have 2 techs out of the three coming out ahead.