Possible ships of the USN - post 1899

[Tanthalas]

its a nice ship but remember our discussion about MMB or AQY.  I would suspect that 7" guns would fall into that grey area but that this ship would end up being ruled MMB on AQY (Ilegal).

[KWorld]

I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.

[Tanthalas]

Im just giving you my opinion, but like I have said in the past, feal free to build whatever you want.  Just dont act surprised if there are repercusions.

I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.

[KWorld]

Im just giving you my opinion, but like I have said in the past, feal free to build whatever you want.  Just dont act surprised if there are repercusions.

I don't think so, since the rules specifically say: "Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns".  Guns between 7" and 8" are in a grey area, 7" aren't.  At least by my reading, anyway.

If it does, it does, and I can save a few tons (and end up with a ship that works better).  The 7" casemate mounts will only be better here in that they're mounted higher and so are less prone to being washed out than the historical mounts.  That won't change the fact that the shells are really too heavy for easy manual operations, but in 1903 the USN won't know that.

[KWorld]

A possible test-bed for the 7" gun.   It's a conversion of an 1895 cruiser, taking the opportunity to pull the old engine and install a new, more modern one along with the replacement of the old 6"/40 guns with 7"/45s.  The old torpedo tubes were replaced by a short-range wireless, and the 4"/40s with 4"/50s.


USS Madison, United States Protected Cruiser laid down 1895 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   2,654 t light; 2,762 t standard; 3,046 t normal; 3,273 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (315.20 ft / 305.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (17.00 / 17.94 ft)
   (96.07 m / 92.96 m) x 12.80 m  x (5.18 / 5.47 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 594 lbs / 269 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   305.00 ft / 92.96 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.25" / 32 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,155 ihp / 6,829 Kw = 20.50 kts
   Range 4,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 510 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   204 - 266

Cost:
   £0.326 million / $1.304 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 145 tons, 4.8 %
      - Guns: 145 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 356 tons, 11.7 %
      - Belts: 135 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 194 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,329 tons, 43.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 814 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 392 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.3 %
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,366 lbs / 620 Kg = 8.0 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.490 / 0.498
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.26 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.20 ft / 1.28 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   45.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.62 ft / 3.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,454 Square feet or 785 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 329 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Above decks miscellaneous weight allows for a short-range wireless set.

[KWorld]

USS Scorpion, United States Canal gunboat laid down 1905

Displacement:
   998 t light; 1,076 t standard; 1,137 t normal; 1,185 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (180.00 ft / 180.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (8.50 / 8.81 ft)
   (54.86 m / 54.86 m) x 12.19 m  x (2.59 / 2.68 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 0.24" / 6.0 mm 108.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1,200 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 240 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   122.40 ft / 37.31 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 1,562 ihp / 1,166 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 109 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.109 million / $0.438 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 127 tons, 11.1 %
      - Guns: 127 tons, 11.1 %
   Armour: 306 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 136 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armament: 58 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 103 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 221 tons, 19.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 345 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 138 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,469 lbs / 666 Kg = 8.6 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.53
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.42 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.14 ft / 2.48 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,516 Square feet or 512 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 292 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[KWorld]

This is a concept design, similar to a concept used in various wargames at the Naval War College during this period.  The idea is for a fast, armored, torpedo craft to serve with the battle line.

USS Lexington, United States Armored Torpedo Cruiser laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   8,446 t light; 8,757 t standard; 9,600 t normal; 10,275 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (500.00 ft / 500.00 ft) x 56.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.27 ft)
   (152.40 m / 152.40 m) x 17.07 m  x (7.32 / 7.70 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 164.99lbs / 74.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.00lbs / 14.97kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,254 lbs / 569 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   109.98 ft / 33.52 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,445 ihp / 15,252 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,518 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   484 - 630

Cost:
   £0.855 million / $3.420 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 282 tons, 2.9 %
      - Guns: 282 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 2,412 tons, 25.1 %
      - Belts: 1,450 tons, 15.1 %
      - Armament: 168 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 697 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,195 tons, 33.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,459 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,154 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 99 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 74 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,367 lbs / 2,888 Kg = 37.1 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   17.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   61.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   9.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.32 ft / 3.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,656 Square feet or 1,733 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 436 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.01
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Below-decks miscellaneous weight accounts for 20 18" 5m side mounted submerged torpedo tubes and 60 reload torpedoes.

Above-decks miscellaneous weight allows for a long-range wireless installation.

[Delta Force]

If it's operating as part of the battle line you don't really need it to go 22 knots, unless it is going to work with the armored cruisers. If it does work with the armored cruisers it should probably resemble them as well, otherwise it will become quite the shell magnet.

[KWorld]

If it's operating as part of the battle line you don't really need it to go 22 knots, unless it is going to work with the armored cruisers. If it does work with the armored cruisers it should probably resemble them as well, otherwise it will become quite the shell magnet.

It needs to be able to go faster than the battle line to achieve a useful firing position if the enemy is respecting the range of torpedoes (as the USN expects to do).  Visually, it looks like a longer Boulder-class light AC.