Dreadnaughts

[snip]

So it seems to me like everyone is pushing for as close to dreads as they can get under the current rules. My question is, do we just want to go to dreads now or continue to wait until aobut 1905-06 to begin laying them down?

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm not opposed (not that it matters, given who I play) but why do it, other than to avoid five sim-years of building obsolete stuff before 1905?

I suppose y'all could script some sort of shooty incident that allows lessons to be learned about all-big-gun layouts.  Turbines are another matter...

[snip]

ya, not talking about changing up the engine years and all other "true" technological items (guns and armor, to name two more). Since the all-big-gun school does not necessarily require fire control equipment as we have it in the rules in order to gain traction, I see no reason why we could not do away with that portion of "tech". Thoughts from others?

[The Rock Doctor]

Maybe bump the 1904 tech forward (except the torpedo bulkhead thing - bump it back to the 1906 tech).  That'll allow for a couple generations of first-gen dreads?

Or limit it more - just allow any disposition of non-superfiring single and twin guns.

[Desertfox]

I'm not pushing there and would prefer not to go with dreads. I'd say give all the true pre-dreads a shooting bonus (make main guns horribly inaccurate at long ranges?) against semi-dreads if they get into combat.

[KWorld]

I wouldn't think that would have the affect you want, anyway.


As far as dreads-vs-predreads goes, I'm OK either way.  I'm not pushing to go beyond the "3-twins and no more" that we have now, but I'm OK if we change the rules for, say, 1902.

[Tanthalas]

I would like a bit more flexibility or some sort of "reward" for people building period apropriat types (note I generaly exclude myself from that catagory).

The Issue as I see it is with the proliferation of semi dreads, and some of the other oddball layouts being used it isnt that big a jump to a 4 turret AC atleast.

Gona pick on snip a bit for my example (sorry man but im picking on myself to while im at it)

Ok so picture this, England has built enechelon secondaries on a battleship, and some poor naval designer is trying to figure out how to out AC the Italian Gladius class, how big a jump is it for him to place a pair of enechelon 9.2" turrets midships with an A and Y pair.  Personaly I dont see it as that great a jump, especialy with the BB in question either already in service or nearing compleation (now I can see the british admiralty rejecting it since its based on theories espoused by "that Italian Loon")

[Nobody]

The difference between our world and the 1900 otl world is, that by 1900 everyone was building their 10000ts and a bit ships and no navy saw a reason to change that (for a couple of decades). Then came the British and thought: "we will build a ship no other nation can afford and be (again) the unchallenged ruler of the seas". That's obviously not the case in the Nverse, most of us are already building "almost Dreadnoughts". I don't like that, but its hard to avoid.

If we really wanted to prevent building "too powerful ships" I would propose stuff like this:
- every main gun turret besides the first 2 requires and additional composite hull strength of 0.2 - until the development of "advanced hull strength calculations (~1905)"
- battle rules which make perfectly clear, that there is an optimal number of guns in a battery(4, or 3-5). Too few and you can't spot/range properly, too many an they confuse each other (because no central, only local fire control)
I tried that with my last IC post
- nonlinear upkeep penalties for ships that are "too big for their time"

[Darman]

I think we are all also trying to outgun one another. 

[Tanthalas]

we are in some cases, and out armor in others.  Honestly there isnt realy a good answer to this problem... the harder we as mods try to tighten things down the more rebelious yall players will IMHO get... I throw out a bunch of stuff I think will proly be ilegal mostly so yall dont try it and get pissy when it gets shot down.

I think we are all also trying to outgun one another.

[Desertfox]

I'd say just put a significant RoF limiter on big guns. You can have that semi-dread, but without good FC, while you miss with your big gun, the other guy will be shredding your ship with his significantly bigger secondaries, which can fire much faster than the big guns. 

[Tanthalas]

Just using period RoF is suficient on that front honestly, the issue is that more big guns will drive more advancement in FC tech and even more big guns... Realisticly I dont think we can justify having more than 6 main guns on anything at this point (and that should honestly be restricted to ACs with guns equivilant to our BB secondaries)... Personaly im going to just build my next class to look like my preceading class (more or less) because I feal that there are to many AQY/ABY/AXY ships in the world already.

I'd say just put a significant RoF limiter on big guns. You can have that semi-dread, but without good FC, while you miss with your big gun, the other guy will be shredding your ship with his significantly bigger secondaries, which can fire much faster than the big guns.

[Darman]

I think that moving up the year the dreadnaught tech itself, at least as far as allowing more turrets, should be advanced by a year at this point.  Everyone is, at least theoretically, looking for ways to increase their main guns.  Adding a 4th turret after adding a third turret only makes sense. 

[Jefgte]

I think that moving up the year the dreadnaught tech itself, at least as far as allowing more turrets, should be advanced by a year at this point.  Everyone is, at least theoretically, looking for ways to increase their main guns.  Adding a 4th turret after adding a third turret only makes sense. 

Perhaps...
1900 - 3T2 - 6 main guns
1902 - 4T2 - 8 main guns
1904 - 5T2 - 10 main guns
No superfiring turrets

[Darman]

I think that moving up the year the dreadnaught tech itself, at least as far as allowing more turrets, should be advanced by a year at this point.  Everyone is, at least theoretically, looking for ways to increase their main guns.  Adding a 4th turret after adding a third turret only makes sense. 

Perhaps...
1900 - 3T2 - 6 main guns
1902 - 4T2 - 8 main guns
1904 - 5T2 - 10 main guns
No superfiring turrets

makes sense to me.