Lake ships of Firanj?

[Ithekro]

I'm experimenting with the round battleship concept for Firanj's Lake Fleet.  As we don't have the Caliphate data anymore, I'm using Anahuac data as baseline for these ships.

What do you think of this vessel?  (name is of an Egyptian rules during the Arab days I beleive..1200?


Al-Ashraf Sayf Addin Barsbay , Firanj Lake Battleship laid down 1885
Barbette ship
Central citadel ship

Displacement:
   9,742 t light; 9,999 t standard; 10,440 t normal; 10,751 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   200.00 ft / 200.00 ft x 200.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   60.96 m / 60.96 m x 60.96 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      2 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (1x2 guns), 433.86lbs / 196.80kg shells, 1884 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 76.19lbs / 34.56kg shells, 1884 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 76.19lbs / 34.56kg shells, 1884 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1884 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,173 lbs / 532 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 70

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   7.00" / 178 mm     70.00 ft / 21.34 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 12,000 ihp / 8,952 Kw = 15.22 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 9.00 kts (Bunkerage = 794 tons)

Complement:
   516 - 671

Cost:
   £0.791 million / $3.163 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 147 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 2,216 tons, 21.2 %
      - Belts: 717 tons, 6.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 402 tons, 3.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,025 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 72 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,332 tons, 22.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,947 tons, 47.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 698 tons, 6.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,489 lbs / 10,654 Kg = 53.3 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
   Metacentric height 34.8 ft / 10.6 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.571
   Length to Beam Ratio: 1.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (50 %):      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Stern:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Average freeboard:   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 286.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,712 Square feet or 2,574 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 805 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.74
      - Longitudinal: 14.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Ithekro]

Even older vessel of this type.  Full turret on top of the citadel for weirdness.  Rearmed with 1884 guns.

Al-Mansour Ala Addin Ali  , Firanj Lake Ironclad laid down 1875
Central citadel ship

Displacement:
   8,433 t light; 8,635 t standard; 9,000 t normal; 9,256 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   150.00 ft / 150.00 ft x 150.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   45.72 m / 45.72 m x 45.72 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      1 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns in single mounts, 433.86lbs / 196.80kg shells, 1884 Model
     Breech loading gun in Coles/Ericsson turret
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 76.19lbs / 34.56kg shells, 1884 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 76.19lbs / 34.56kg shells, 1884 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 739 lbs / 335 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 50

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   7.00" / 178 mm     20.00 ft / 6.10 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 133 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm         -               -
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 13.31 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 7.00 kts (Bunkerage = 656 tons)

Complement:
   461 - 600

Cost:
   £0.685 million / $2.739 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 92 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 1,999 tons, 22.2 %
      - Belts: 663 tons, 7.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 397 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 874 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,230 tons, 24.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,012 tons, 44.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 567 tons, 6.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,115 lbs / 6,402 Kg = 38.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 16.0 ft / 4.9 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.91

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 1.000
   Length to Beam Ratio: 1.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 75 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 77
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (50 %):      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Stern:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Average freeboard:   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 273.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,617 Square feet or 2,194 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.72
      - Longitudinal: 20.11
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Ithekro]

Razia Sultana, Firanj Lake Cruiser laid down 1892

Displacement:
   2,752 t light; 2,868 t standard; 3,000 t normal; 3,094 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   97.54 m / 97.54 m x 10.97 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1892 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1892 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1892 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1892 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 580 lbs / 263 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 14.0" / 355.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,140 ihp / 6,072 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 9.00 kts (Bunkerage = 238 tons)

Complement:
   202 - 263

Cost:
   £0.339 million / $1.356 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 72 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 471 tons, 15.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 442 tons, 14.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,298 tons, 43.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 886 tons, 29.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 248 tons, 8.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,381 lbs / 627 Kg = 16.5 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 159.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,970 Square feet or 740 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 61 lbs/sq ft or 296 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Ithekro]

Number 1 , Firanj Gun Boat laid down 1888

Displacement:
   367 t light; 382 t standard; 400 t normal; 413 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   140.00 ft / 140.00 ft x 16.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   42.67 m / 42.67 m x 4.88 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.49lbs / 5.67kg shells, 1888 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1888 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 25 lbs / 11 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 3,573 ihp / 2,665 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 800nm at 9.00 kts (Bunkerage = 32 tons)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   44 - 58

Cost:
   £0.047 million / $0.189 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 227 tons, 56.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 133 tons, 33.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 33 tons, 8.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     115 lbs / 52 Kg = 9.2 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.32 ft / 2.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 190.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,590 Square feet or 148 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 29 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 145 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.78
      - Longitudinal: 9.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

Number 1 , Firanj Torpedo Boat laid down 1888

Displacement:
   114 t light; 116 t standard; 125 t normal; 131 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   120.00 ft / 120.00 ft x 13.00 ft x 6.00 ft (normal load)
   36.58 m / 36.58 m x 3.96 m  x 1.83 m

Armament:
      2 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1888 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 500
   1 - 14.0" / 355.6 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,734 ihp / 1,293 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 800nm at 9.00 kts (Bunkerage = 15 tons)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   18 - 24

Cost:
   £0.015 million / $0.059 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 76 tons, 60.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 37 tons, 29.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 11 tons, 8.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30 lbs / 14 Kg = 2,286.3 x 0.3 " / 8 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 10.95 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Mid (50 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 1,009 Square feet or 94 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 71 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 4.59
      - Overall: 0.64
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Desertfox]

Not bad, the circular ships might actually work pretty well in defending straits. Going to have to come up with my own reaaally old ships!

[Ithekro]

Lake Fleet in 1906 looks like the present:

1 x Al-Ashraf Sayf Addin Barsbay BBL
1 x Al-Mansour Ala Addin Ali BBL
2 x Razia Sultana PC
10 Gunboats
20 Torpedo Boats

2 x Bringer of Many Tears BBL (under construction)
(to replace the old round battleships)
2 x Aram Shah PC (under construction)
(all of this is replacement tonnage for the two older BBLs)

[Ithekro]

Bringer of Many Tears
Taker of Many Tears

Firanj Lake Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   4,537 t light; 4,729 t standard; 5,000 t normal; 5,197 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   280.00 ft / 280.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   85.34 m / 85.34 m x 17.07 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,293 lbs / 1,040 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 70

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   7.00" / 178 mm     80.00 ft / 24.38 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      9.00" / 229 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 5,000 ihp / 3,730 Kw = 15.62 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 488 tons)

Complement:
   296 - 386

Cost:
   £0.501 million / $2.004 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 287 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 1,783 tons, 35.7 %
      - Belts: 803 tons, 16.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 447 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 464 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 725 tons, 14.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,717 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 463 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,163 lbs / 2,342 Kg = 10.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.698
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.32 ft / 3.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,540 Square feet or 1,165 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 502 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Ithekro]

Aram Shah

Firanj Lake Cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   3,196 t light; 3,352 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 3,605 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   360.00 ft / 360.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   109.73 m / 109.73 m x 10.97 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      6 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 915 lbs / 415 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 14.0" / 355.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 20.82 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 267 tons)

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.394 million / $1.576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 114 tons, 3.3 %
   Armour: 736 tons, 21.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 32 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 679 tons, 19.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,329 tons, 38.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 892 tons, 25.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 304 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,509 lbs / 684 Kg = 18.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.32 ft / 3.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 152.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,178 Square feet or 853 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 286 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.16
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

If you are wondering, I've based the newer Lake Battleships on the predreadnought era American monitors.

[Ithekro]

Worse comes to worse, we can always transfere some of this stuff to the Blue Sea's Fleet if it seems like too much.  Even the round battleships, though with their seakeeping I think they are better suited for the Lakes.

[swamphen]

Old, insane...I like 'em.  :)


Krupp submits the following vessel for the Most Honourable and Majestic Thrawn's consideration for updating his mighty Great Lakes Fleet:

Krupp "Teichkreuzer" laid down 1907

Displacement:
   5,567 t light; 5,805 t standard; 6,659 t normal; 7,343 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 65.62 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 20.00 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.69" / 170 mm guns (2x2 guns), 149.91lbs / 68.00kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1901 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
     12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, majority aft, 8 raised mounts
      4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1902 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

   Weight of broadside 1,385 lbs / 628 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:      5.51" / 140 mm   269.03 ft / 82.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:      1.97" / 50 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Upper:      3.15" / 80 mm   269.03 ft / 82.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:      5.51" / 140 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.76" / 70 mm
   2nd:      3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:      1.97" / 50 mm   1.97" / 50 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,000 ihp / 5,968 Kw = 17.62 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 17.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,538 tons)

Complement:
   368 - 479

Cost:
   £0.465 million / $1.861 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 175 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 1,895 tons, 28.5 %
      - Belts: 963 tons, 14.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 233 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 657 tons, 9.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 880 tons, 13.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,117 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,092 tons, 16.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 7.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,996 lbs / 5,441 Kg = 80.0 x 6.7 " / 170 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:         18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:         14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.90 ft / 4.54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,029 Square feet or 1,675 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 421 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather



(nb: 10% oil auxiliary firing.)

[Desertfox]

New Zion will soon get a visit by Swiss weapon dealers offering plans for Lake Vikktoria ships...

[Ithekro]

Such a vessel (the "Teichkreuzer") might do well on the high seas that the Majestic Thrawn may see fit to have such vessels for his Blue Water Navy rather than his Lake Fleet.  Seeing how the older Caliphate built vessels are small in number and the Swiss eager to press their advantage....How many does Brandenburg see themselves making and at what price per unit?

[Ithekro]

2 x Bringer of Many Tears BBL (under construction)

2 x Aram Shah PC (under construction)

These vessels would be completed near the end of 1906.

The two older round battleships would be placed in reserve at this point to be scrapped once the these four ships finish trials my mid-1907.  Money from these scrapped vessels will probably go to pay for ships from Brandenburg.  The recovered materials will probably go towards the Hand of Thrawn.

The Blue Water Supercruiser Hand of Thrawn would laid down in the middle of H2/1906.