Treaty of Paris

[Darman]

Everything seems to be falling into place.... Now if only the Ottomans can figure out where their place is... (and no they will never allow themselves to be put into it...)

[Tanthalas]

Everything seems to be falling into place.... Now if only the Ottomans can figure out where their place is... (and no they will never allow themselves to be put into it...)

Plans an Expidition to let he ottomans know their place (and the finer points of BATHING)

[KWorld]

The US is very much less than amused by the Treaty of Paris.  VERY much less than amused.

[snip]

Now we just need the central block (Germany and friends), and the "oh, us to" block (US, Russia etc) and we have a nice complex web to play with. *rubs hands together in anticipation.

[Darman]

Now we just need the central block (Germany and friends), and the "oh, us to" block (US, Russia etc) and we have a nice complex web to play with. *rubs hands together in anticipation.

Snip stop weaving... you're web is getting tangled...

[snip]

IC: The crown (date indicates Victoria is still alive) and parliament have mixed reactions to the news. Military planners look at the news and begin figuring out how best to move additional troops and ships to the Far East, tho this is not public knowledge. Once news of the US's "less than amused" stance reaches the government, feelers will begin to be sent out to see if anything can be done about it (devious things or otherwise)

OOC: Really, I don't see how this treaty benefits the French. From my PoV, it gives the French further commitments in both the Far East and Europe that dont really give great return on there investments. Aside from ensuring one has friends (who can easily be picked apart 1 by 1 leaving France to fight alone IMO), it really weakens France's overall defenses and military position. I can see situations in which the French get screamed at for troops, ships and other military hardware and manpower they can ill afford to spare. The Iberians and Dutch obviously saw the French were wanting, took poor France out back and had there way with the French on this one.

[Tanthalas]

I thought that was the idea...

Now we just need the central block (Germany and friends), and the "oh, us to" block (US, Russia etc) and we have a nice complex web to play with. *rubs hands together in anticipation.

Snip stop weaving... you're web is getting tangled...

[Darman]

Japan's War Plans Bureau will be busy writing up and revising mobilization plans to deal with new threat potentialities...

[Logi]

OOC:
Given Iberia and France's extreme closeness of both homeland and colonies I fail to see how France benefits negatively from an alliance with Iberia.

Perhaps if one has plans of aggression it might be negative since the treaty signers would be dragged in. Given I don't believe France (and definitely Iberia) has any such plans I don't see the urgent negative side to such a treaty.

If I am wrong and the Netherlands or France decide to engage in battle, I suppose the one most negatively impacted in Iberia, given that I am simming Iberia to be purely growth-based. (I picked a very low troops-to-population ratio and low military strength overall to lower the cost of the military).

I do suppose that Netherlands has been the one to benefit the most from the treaty (given their much larger Oceania territory and relative lack of similar colonies in Africa).

[KWorld]

I'd expect that the downside for France to this alliance is that as the most powerful partner in the group, it will be called on more heavily than it's partners should things go into the pot.  Ie, the Dutch and Iberians benefit more from this alliance than France does, because they can't support France to the degree that France can support them.

[Jefgte]

...because they can't support France to the degree than France can support them.

I agree, France is a Grand Brother.

:)

Note that Treaty of Paris Alliance is not vs USA.
France couldnt made war vs LaFayette.

:)

[KWorld]

...because they can't support France to the degree than France can support them.

I agree, France is a Grand Brother.

:)

Note that Treaty of Paris Alliance is not vs USA.
France couldnt made war vs LaFayette.

:)

As far as France (and the Netherlands, probably) is concerned, the Treaty of Paris may not be against the US.  For Iberia, I'm sure it most definitely IS (after all, the Iberian-American War wasn't very long ago).  From the US standpoint, there's two issues: first, whether or not there are secret offensive protocols to the treaty that the US doesn't, and won't, know about; and second, should the Iberian-American War restart, now the US has to assume it will face the French navy as well, along with at least token Dutch forces.

[Logi]

As far as France (and the Netherlands, probably) is concerned, the Treaty of Paris may not be against the US.  For Iberia, I'm sure it most definitely IS (after all, the Iberian-American War wasn't very long ago).  From the US standpoint, there's two issues: first, whether or not there are secret offensive protocols to the treaty that the US doesn't, and won't, know about; and second, should the Iberian-American War restart, now the US has to assume it will face the French navy as well, along with at least token Dutch forces.

Actually I'm following the historical stance of Spain, which was not fixated on revenge at all. The Spanish-American War was the culmination of dissent with the Spanish government and the real start of the regeneration movement which led to the Silvera platform of reduced foreign involvement and a more innerward focus on improvement.

Part of the reason both historically and here for this lack of desire for revenge against the US is simply because it's not possible. The US fleet far outnumbers the Spanish and perhaps most importantly, there is absolutely no way the Spanish ships could launch any extended assault or war against the US simply because of the ranges involved (there is no longer refueling in the Atlantic near the US). I don't believe the US was fixated on the possibility of a restart of the Spanish-American war simply because it was not feasible! The US controlled all nearby refueling stations after the war (as they do here).

France/Dutch or not, it would take 2091 nm to reach New York from the Azores, the closest refueling station to the US from Iberia/France/Dutch. With a round trip, it would take 4182 nm (that's not including patrolling or anything involving moving). The number of ships that have such a range total zero in all our navies. The distance from French Guiana and Suriname (in South America) is very very similar.

[KWorld]

As far as France (and the Netherlands, probably) is concerned, the Treaty of Paris may not be against the US.  For Iberia, I'm sure it most definitely IS (after all, the Iberian-American War wasn't very long ago).  From the US standpoint, there's two issues: first, whether or not there are secret offensive protocols to the treaty that the US doesn't, and won't, know about; and second, should the Iberian-American War restart, now the US has to assume it will face the French navy as well, along with at least token Dutch forces.

Actually I'm following the historical stance of Spain, which was not fixated on revenge at all. The Spanish-American War was the culmination of dissent with the Spanish government and the real start of the regeneration movement which led to the Silvera platform of reduced foreign involvement and a more innerward focus on improvement.

Part of the reason both historically and here for this lack of desire for revenge against the US is simply because it's not possible. The US fleet far outnumbers the Spanish and perhaps most importantly, there is absolutely no way the Spanish ships could launch any extended assault or war against the US simply because of the ranges involved (there is no longer refueling in the Atlantic near the US). I don't believe the US was fixated on the possibility of a restart of the Spanish-American war simply because it was not feasible! The US controlled all nearby refueling stations after the war (as they do here).

France/Dutch or not, it would take 2091 nm to reach New York from the Azores, the closest refueling station to the US from Iberia/France/Dutch. With a round trip, it would take 4182 nm (that's not including patrolling or anything involving moving). The number of ships that have such a range total zero in all our navies. The distance from French Guiana and Suriname (in South America) is very very similar.

Come now, let's see how many ships can make the trip:

All French 3rd class cruisers (5 ships, 6500 nm range)
All French 2nd class cruisers (5 ships, 7000-6500 nm range)
All French 1st class cruisers (3 ships, 7000-6500 nm range)
All French battleships (9 ships, 8500-7500 nm range)
All Dutch frigates (5 ships, 9400 nm range)

So while the Iberian navy is not capable of taking the offensive in the Atlantic, their allies are.  Like I said, the US doesn't, and won't, know what (if any) secret side protocols there are, but it will have to assume there are some, and the above list shows why this is worrisome.

[PS - the French also have a Type 2 port at Martinique.... which would allow the Iberian navy to participate in such a war, at least as long as it remains in French hands.]

[Jefgte]

Add 4 x 1540t Aviso Torpilleurs in Martinique & Guadeloupe.

;)