Ships of the Imperial Russian Navy: 1900

[snip]

O boy, some big boys here. Well, while tumblehomes may be advantageous in ship cost they will have major disadvantages in combat. Might be something to keep in mind.

[Delta Force]

Your 2 classes had minor differences.
Built 1 class - 21kts BB

That is probably a good idea, as the semi-dreadnought is too slow for the armored cruiser squadrons but faster than the pre-dreadnoughts. 21 knots is likely to be my standard speed for dreadnoughts and it will ensure the semi-dreadnoughts have other ships to operate with instead of occupying a narrow speed band between the pre-dreadnoughts and armored cruisers.

O boy, some big boys here. Well, while tumblehomes may be advantageous in ship cost they will have major disadvantages in combat. Might be something to keep in mind.

Tumblehome seems like a valid option during the transition to full dreadnoughts. They won't age as well as conventional ships due to their vulnerability to underwater damage and plunging fire, but against their contemporaries they have the advantage of sloped armor and better seakeeping (although many observers thought such ships were capsizing when they turned). Against other pre-dreadnoughts these ships should do fine, but I do plan to build conventional ships once the dreadnought era starts.

[Delta Force]

Here is the revised design, which I consider to be very high performance seeing as it is using coal fired reciprocating engines. When equipped with turbines the biggest limitation on speed is actually the stability of the design.

Semi-Dreadnoughtv2, Russia Battleship laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   18,800 t light; 19,566 t standard; 21,350 t normal; 22,777 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (548.00 ft / 540.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 27.87 ft)
   (167.03 m / 164.59 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.49 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 750.00lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,192 lbs / 4,169 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   378.00 ft / 115.21 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   162.00 ft / 49.38 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   378.00 ft / 115.21 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,500 ihp / 22,007 Kw = 21.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,212 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   883 - 1,148

Cost:
   £2.207 million / $8.829 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,005 tons, 9.4 %
      - Guns: 2,005 tons, 9.4 %
   Armour: 6,134 tons, 28.7 %
      - Belts: 3,281 tons, 15.4 %
      - Armament: 1,370 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,151 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 332 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 4,609 tons, 21.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,732 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,550 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1.5 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,612 lbs / 7,535 Kg = 19.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.659 / 0.662
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,863 Square feet or 2,867 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 723 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
300 tons above deck reserve weight.

[snip]

Well, the Incomparables are not so out of line after all...

[Delta Force]

Well, the Incomparables are not so out of line after all...

I will probably make it smaller and better armored and wait for turbines to get it up to 21 knots or higher.

[Delta Force]

Modified the armor arrangement further to offer improved protection. Getting past 18 or so knots with current engine technologies is simply too expensive for anything expected to hold up in the battleline.

Semi-Dreadnoughtv3, Russia Battleship laid down 1902 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   16,250 t light; 16,960 t standard; 18,568 t normal; 19,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (478.00 ft / 470.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 27.93 ft)
   (145.69 m / 143.26 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.51 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,192 lbs / 4,169 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   304.00 ft / 92.66 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   166.00 ft / 50.60 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   304.00 ft / 92.66 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
   Forecastle: 2.50" / 64 mm  Quarter deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,000 ihp / 11,936 Kw = 18.06 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,895 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   794 - 1,033

Cost:
   £1.823 million / $7.290 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,005 tons, 10.8 %
      - Guns: 2,005 tons, 10.8 %
   Armour: 6,449 tons, 34.7 %
      - Belts: 3,380 tons, 18.2 %
      - Armament: 1,455 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,252 tons, 6.7 %
      - Conning Towers: 363 tons, 2.0 %
   Machinery: 2,500 tons, 13.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,975 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,318 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1.7 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,308 lbs / 8,758 Kg = 22.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.658 / 0.662
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,850 Square feet or 2,494 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 737 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
300 tons above deck reserve weight.

[KWorld]

> Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical
> armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

I don't think this section is right, since both belts are thicker than that.

[Delta Force]

> Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical
> armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

I don't think this section is right, since both belts are thicker than that.

You're right, I forgot to change that after increasing the armor from 10 and 5 inches. It should be equivalent to 13.86 and 5.77 inches.

[KWorld]

> Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical
> armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

I don't think this section is right, since both belts are thicker than that.

You're right, I forgot to change that after increasing the armor from 10 and 5 inches. It should be equivalent to 13.86 and 5.77 inches.

The upper and end belts are 6"....

[Delta Force]

> Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical
> armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

I don't think this section is right, since both belts are thicker than that.

You're right, I forgot to change that after increasing the armor from 10 and 5 inches. It should be equivalent to 13.86 and 5.77 inches.

The upper and end belts are 6"....

Forgot I increased those to 6 inches. 6 inches at a 30 degree incline is equal to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

[Delta Force]

A new coastal defense battleship for IRN Baltic and Black Sea service. I'm not sure how deep the waters are off the Baltic coastline, but the ship is rather low draught.

Coastal Battleship, Russia Coastal Battleship laid down 1900

Displacement:
   7,850 t light; 8,216 t standard; 8,753 t normal; 9,183 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (368.00 ft / 360.00 ft) x 66.00 ft (Bulges 72.00 ft) x (18.17 / 18.99 ft)
   (112.17 m / 109.73 m) x 20.12 m (Bulges 21.95 m)  x (5.54 / 5.79 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 89.99lbs / 40.82kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.99lbs / 5.44kg shells, 360 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,816 lbs / 1,731 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   126.00 ft / 38.40 m   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   234.00 ft / 71.32 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,266 ihp / 6,912 Kw = 17.16 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 967 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   452 - 588

Cost:
   £0.800 million / $3.199 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 816 tons, 9.3 %
      - Guns: 816 tons, 9.3 %
   Armour: 3,075 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 1,612 tons, 18.4 %
      - Armament: 564 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 679 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Towers: 220 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 1,448 tons, 16.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,466 tons, 28.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 903 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 0.5 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,994 lbs / 4,533 Kg = 11.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.651 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,212 Square feet or 1,692 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 118 lbs/sq ft or 578 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 8 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 11.55 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Main armament mounted en echelon.

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
11 tons above deck reserve weight.

[KWorld]

> 4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
>      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
>     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships

There's an error here.....


Also, why go with the en echelon mountings, when they will cause problems with blast effects and limited cross-deck arcs that can be avoided with end mountings?  The end-on fire advantages are marginal, and the rest of the ship doesn't seem designed for end-on fire......

[Tanthalas]

I agree with your question on the choice of echelon for the layout.  Unless like me he is just doing it for flavor, like I atempted to do...

[KWorld]

I agree with your question on the choice of echelon for the layout.  Unless like me he is just doing it for flavor, like I atempted to do...

En echelon, in addition to end mountings, makes a fair amount of sense before superfiring mounts are available: increases broadside firepower on less tonnage than a full set of wing turrets.  En echelon mounts instead of end mountings, by this time period....... not so much.

[Delta Force]

> 4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 40.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
>      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
>     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships

There's an error here.....


Also, why go with the en echelon mountings, when they will cause problems with blast effects and limited cross-deck arcs that can be avoided with end mountings?  The end-on fire advantages are marginal, and the rest of the ship doesn't seem designed for end-on fire......

The Russians had a few en echelon battleships for service on the Black Sea to help force the Turkish Straits. Otherwise all IRN ships were designed for broadside combat, the Russians delayed in adopting superfiring turrets for their dreadnoughts because they thought it added too much weight and complexity for the advantages it gave in end on fire.

I was considering doing a design with four turrets (easily done on tumblehome hulls and one the reasons the French adopted them), but it is also vulnerable to blast damage and I am unsure if wing turrets are banned for pre-dreadnoughts with only four main guns. That's why I accidentally ended up with the single turrets.