Ships of the Imperial Russian Navy: 1900

[The Rock Doctor]

You've missed the torpedo tubes in the actual sim, I think.

Just curious - is Russia designing different fleets for different regions, or trying to standardize?

[KWorld]

We're using miscellaneous weight to track torps, because SS3.b3 has a flaw in that it calculates the amount torps & tubes would weigh, but doesn't actually apply that value to the design until the design is reloaded from a saved file.  That means if you make a design with the torps in the design, AND include misc weight for them, if you reload the design after saving it you'll be double-counting the weight of the torps.  Not a huge deal, generally, on bigger ships, but it will definitely cause problems on TBs and other smaller ships.

[Delta Force]

You've missed the torpedo tubes in the actual sim, I think.

Just curious - is Russia designing different fleets for different regions, or trying to standardize?

I sim torpedoes and mines as miscellaneous weight so I don't have to worry about changing the armament while I work on designs. Sometimes you can end up with weight not being counted or being double counted if you do not do things that way.

As for the fleets, I am essentially carrying out the naval planning as if each fleet were its own navy. The Baltic fleet is going to be more of a traditional navy with full sized battleships and a few armored cruisers. It is the fleet that is expected to do the majority of the fighting in the event of war with another European power. The Black Sea fleet is going to be more of a coastal defense fleet, with monitors, destroyers, and second class battleships roaming around. The ships there are not as seaworthy or long ranged, but they don't really have to be. The Pacific fleet is based more around cruisers of various types as battleships would require too many crew members and consume too many resources. The Pacific fleet is intended to defend against European colonial fleets and the Chinese Navy, and if Japan were to attack the ships are to act as commerce raiders until reinforcements can arrive.

I suppose you can consider there to be a fourth fleet for the ships intended for service on the various rivers of Russia and the Caspian Sea, but I haven't sat down to design any ships for such service yet.

[Delta Force]

Here is a scouting cruiser for the navy.

Scout Cruiser, Russia Scout Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   3,640 t light; 3,786 t standard; 4,293 t normal; 4,698 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 392.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (14.75 / 15.93 ft)
   (119.48 m / 119.48 m) x 12.19 m  x (4.50 / 4.86 m)

Armament:
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 600 lbs / 272 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,000 ihp / 11,936 Kw = 22.75 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 912 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   264 - 344

Cost:
   £0.497 million / $1.989 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 98 tons, 2.3 %
      - Guns: 98 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 30 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armament: 30 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,425 tons, 56.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,087 tons, 25.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 653 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,457 lbs / 661 Kg = 27.7 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.78
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 9.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.658
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.50 ft / 3.51 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,007 Square feet or 1,116 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 81 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 310 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.08
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[snip]

I don't think it is quite fast enough to be a scout. Then again, I don't think we will see "proper" scouts until turbines exist and mature a bit. You can get away with higher freeboard to raise seakeeping, I would look into it. I also feel that 12x120mm is just a bit to tight on deck space, 10 would be a bit better and make the ship less of a floating powered bomb IMO. Also, some torps couldn't hurt in place of a few of those guns. Good concept tho, good little, quick hull that will be a great base for a cruiser.

[Delta Force]

I've revised the design to increase the top speed, raise the freeboard, and add torpedoes. It's probably the best design possible in its weight category until turbines and oil firing are developed.

Scout Cruiser, Russia Scout Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   3,650 t light; 3,786 t standard; 4,293 t normal; 4,698 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 392.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (14.75 / 15.93 ft)
   (119.48 m / 119.48 m) x 12.19 m  x (4.50 / 4.86 m)

Armament:
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,440 ihp / 12,264 Kw = 22.91 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 912 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   264 - 344

Cost:
   £0.501 million / $2.004 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 81 tons, 1.9 %
      - Guns: 81 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 25 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,485 tons, 57.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,039 tons, 24.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 643 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,473 lbs / 668 Kg = 28.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.80
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 9.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.658
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.86 ft / 3.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,007 Square feet or 1,116 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 288 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons on deck is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[snip]

I'm strangely fond of it. Good one.

[Tanthalas]

not realy my cup of tea but not a bad little cruiser.

[Delta Force]

not realy my cup of tea but not a bad little cruiser.

Not speedy enough for you?

[KWorld]

Good little raider and finder of the enemy, though it might want to fit a wireless.  As a raider, it's armament's OK, though I might trade some of the 12cms for a couple of 6" guns to sink things quicker. 

[Tanthalas]

actualy the speed is good, but that heavy I would proly want some 6" guns or even a pair of 8".  I'm not planing a cruiser laydown till 1902 though so im not exactly sure what the new lights will end up looking like (I have played around with several diferent ideas)

not realy my cup of tea but not a bad little cruiser.

Not speedy enough for you?

[eltf177]

You might want to consider some armor, at least for the Conning Tower. I don't think it's worth belt or deck armor as speed is far more important.

[Delta Force]

Modified for armor and a radio. I've decided to keep the armament it currently has rather than equip the cruiser with some 6" guns because it would make the ship too large to be unarmored in my view.

Scout Cruiser, Russia Scout Cruiser laid down 1900

Displacement:
   3,750 t light; 3,888 t standard; 4,401 t normal; 4,812 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 392.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (15.25 / 16.45 ft)
   (119.48 m / 119.48 m) x 12.19 m  x (4.65 / 5.01 m)

Armament:
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,660 ihp / 12,428 Kw = 22.92 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 924 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   269 - 351

Cost:
   £0.511 million / $2.045 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 81 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 81 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 42 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,533 tons, 57.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,049 tons, 23.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 651 tons, 14.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 1.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 20 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,464 lbs / 664 Kg = 27.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.69
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.644 / 0.653
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.50 ft / 3.81 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:      11.86 ft / 3.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,948 Square feet or 1,110 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 290 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weight:
20 tons on deck is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.
25 tons above deck reserve weight.

[snip]

Im wondering what the ship would look like with a mix of 6" and a smaller (about 3") guns. The 120mm just seems a bit to "soft" to me.

[Tanthalas]

IDK you can get 3X6" and 8X4.7 easy enough on 3500 tons light and still hit 23 knots...

Im wondering what the ship would look like with a mix of 6" and a smaller (about 3") guns. The 120mm just seems a bit to "soft" to me.