German Navy

[Nobody]

And bigger variant. Upkeep is 23.6/31.7 cents
Tender 2, German fleet tender laid down 1900

Displacement:
   7.284 t light; 7.532 t standard; 12.053 t normal; 15.670 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (387,14 ft / 387,14 ft) x 62,34 ft x (26,25 / 32,99 ft)
   (118,00 m / 118,00 m) x 19,00 m  x (8,00 / 10,06 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 20,97lbs / 9,51kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm 75,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 15.000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 42 lbs / 19 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 3.000 ihp / 2.238 Kw = 12,15 kts
   Range 31.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.138 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   574 - 747

Cost:
   £0,323 million / $1,291 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 0,1%
      - Guns: 8 tons, 0,1%
   Armour: 4 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 469 tons, 3,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.199 tons, 18,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.768 tons, 39,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 4.605 tons, 38,2%
      - Hull below water: 2.240 tons
      - Hull above water: 2.240 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.707 lbs / 10.300 Kg = 1.092,1 x 3,5 " / 88 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,68
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 10,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,666 / 0,689
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 29 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      14,93 ft / 4,55 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81,7%
   Waterplane Area: 18.759 Square feet or 1.743 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 217%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 379 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,76
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

4580 t  misc and 4580 t fuel => 9060 t => 36240 tons support
25 t Rradio

Requesting feedback.

[Tanthalas]

it dosnt look to bad to me, but a thought on Tenders.  Now with SS3 we dont have to use Fuel to get the tonage below the main deck.  So hypotheticly you could sim the ship with just gobs of weight to represent the Coal for other ships... Since this way you are esentialy paying for it twice (once for this ship and once for whatever ships if coals)

[Nobody]

it dosnt look to bad to me, but a thought on Tenders.  Now with SS3 we dont have to use Fuel to get the tonage below the main deck.  So hypotheticly you could sim the ship with just gobs of weight to represent the Coal for other ships... Since this way you are esentialy paying for it twice (once for this ship and once for whatever ships if coals)

Actually I think its the other way around. Because

Up to half of the weight of these facilties may be simmed as extra fuel bunkerage; the remainder may only be simmed as miscellaneous weight.  Regardless, it all counts as functional miscelleneous weight for the purposes of costing.

I have to pay for the misc (on tenders at least) while fuel is almost free.
If I build a freighter to transport coal/oil only this would be different, but I don't think they're mentioned anywhere (in the rules).

[Nobody]

Current concept for the 1900 BB
L5 class, German Ship of the Line laid down 1900

Displacement:
   12.435 t light; 12.982 t standard; 14.035 t normal; 14.878 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (462,79 ft / 459,32 ft) x 73,82 ft x (26,25 / 27,49 ft)
   (141,06 m / 140,00 m) x 22,50 m  x (8,00 / 8,38 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 6,69" / 170 mm 40,0 cal guns - 119,05lbs / 54,00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,86lbs / 14,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,86lbs / 14,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,10lbs / 0,50kg shells, 350 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.313 lbs / 2.410 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   278,87 ft / 85,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   180,44 ft / 55,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Upper:   7,09" / 180 mm   278,87 ft / 85,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 93% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      11,8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   7,87" / 200 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   1,18" / 30 mm         -         5,91" / 150 mm
   4th:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      2,95" / 75 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm  Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,99" / 330 mm, Aft 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15.200 ihp / 11.339 Kw = 18,81 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 11,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.896 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   644 - 838

Cost:
   £1,169 million / $4,678 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.067 tons, 7,6%
      - Guns: 1.067 tons, 7,6%
   Armour: 5.311 tons, 37,8%
      - Belts: 2.679 tons, 19,1%
      - Armament: 1.280 tons, 9,1%
      - Armour Deck: 1.090 tons, 7,8%
      - Conning Towers: 262 tons, 1,9%
   Machinery: 2.375 tons, 16,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.572 tons, 25,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.600 tons, 11,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 0,8%
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16.480 lbs / 7.475 Kg = 24,6 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 13,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,552 / 0,559
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,22 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:      14,92 ft / 4,55 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,2%
   Waterplane Area: 23.707 Square feet or 2.202 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 594 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,65
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

110 t misc
25 t wireless radio

--> 12350 t light

proposed names:
SMS Claas Störtebeker
SMS Arnd Stuke
SMS Nikolaus Milies
SMS Gödeke Michels/Gottfried Michaelsen
SMS Hennig Wichmann
SMS Klaus Scheld
SMS Magister Wigbold

[KWorld]

>  4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 70 per gun
>     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
>     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

    So is it 2 twin mounts, or 4 singles, or 4 twins?

>   12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,10lbs / 0,50kg shells, 350 per gun
>      Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
>      4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
>      8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread

I assume these are supposed to Hotchkiss--type 1 pounders?  If so, they should just be quick-firing guns, not auto rapid-fire.

[Nobody]

>  4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 70 per gun
>     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
>     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

    So is it 2 twin mounts, or 4 singles, or 4 twins?

Good catch. Two two gun mounts of course. Why the hell does SS3 give no warning about that?? It cost me 4% strength.

>   12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,10lbs / 0,50kg shells, 350 per gun
>      Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
>      4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
>      8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread

I assume these are supposed to Hotchkiss--type 1 pounders?  If so, they should just be quick-firing guns, not auto rapid-fire.

Yes they are, but I think they are more auto-cannon than quick-fire. And since that doesn't effect anything and I managed to convince SpringSharp not to complain about it, why not leave it that way?


Corrected version, more speed and armor.
L5 class, German Ship of the Line laid down 1900

Displacement:
   12.435 t light; 12.982 t standard; 14.035 t normal; 14.878 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (462,79 ft / 459,32 ft) x 73,82 ft x (26,25 / 27,49 ft)
   (141,06 m / 140,00 m) x 22,50 m  x (8,00 / 8,38 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 70 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      18 - 6,69" / 170 mm 40,0 cal guns - 119,05lbs / 54,00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,86lbs / 14,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      4 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,86lbs / 14,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,10lbs / 0,50kg shells, 350 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.313 lbs / 2.410 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,6" / 320 mm   278,87 ft / 85,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   180,44 ft / 55,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Upper:   7,09" / 180 mm   278,87 ft / 85,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 93% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      12,6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   7,87" / 200 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   1,18" / 30 mm         -         5,91" / 150 mm
   4th:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      2,95" / 75 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,76" / 70 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,99" / 330 mm, Aft 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15.800 ihp / 11.787 Kw = 19,00 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 11,00 kts
      6170 nm @ 10 knots
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.896 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   644 - 838

Cost:
   £1,183 million / $4,730 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.067 tons, 7,6%
      - Guns: 1.067 tons, 7,6%
   Armour: 5.129 tons, 36,5%
      - Belts: 2.679 tons, 19,1%
      - Armament: 1.090 tons, 7,8%
      - Armour Deck: 1.098 tons, 7,8%
      - Conning Towers: 262 tons, 1,9%
   Machinery: 2.469 tons, 17,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.626 tons, 25,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.600 tons, 11,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 1,0%
      - Hull below water: 35 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 80 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16.203 lbs / 7.350 Kg = 24,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 13,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,552 / 0,559
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,22 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:      14,92 ft / 4,55 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,2%
   Waterplane Area: 23.707 Square feet or 2.202 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 602 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

145 t misc
25 t wireless radio

--> 12315 t light

proposed names:
SMS Claas Störtebeker
SMS Arnd Stuke
SMS Nikolaus Milies
SMS Gödeke Michels/Gottfried Michaelsen
SMS Hennig Wichmann
SMS Klaus Scheld
SMS Magister Wigbold

[Nobody]

Coal freighter study, upkeep 10.9/18 cents.
Coaler 1, German Coaling ship laid down 1900

Displacement:
   8.466 t light; 8.672 t standard; 10.293 t normal; 11.589 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (387,14 ft / 387,14 ft) x 62,34 ft x (22,97 / 25,46 ft)
   (118,00 m / 118,00 m) x 19,00 m  x (7,00 / 7,76 m)

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2.000 ihp / 1.492 Kw = 11,08 kts
   Range 11.900nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.917 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   510 - 664

Cost:
   £0,340 million / $1,360 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 313 tons, 3,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.029 tons, 19,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.826 tons, 17,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 6.125 tons, 59,5%
      - Hull below water: 3.000 tons
      - Hull above water: 3.000 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
      - Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.173 lbs / 6.429 Kg = 131,2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,50
   Metacentric height 4,9 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 11,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,650 / 0,660
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 24 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      14,93 ft / 4,55 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89,3%
   Waterplane Area: 18.228 Square feet or 1.693 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 152%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 366 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,61
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

25 t wireless
100 t cranes
6000 tons of coal
--> 2466 t light

Comment: The crew value is clearly wrong...

[Nobody]

I thought I would give those micro battleships or "super monitors" a try as well.
Max, German super monitor laid down 1900

Displacement:
   6.320 t light; 6.620 t standard; 6.865 t normal; 7.061 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (301,84 ft / 295,28 ft) x 59,06 ft x (19,69 / 20,18 ft)
   (92,00 m / 90,00 m) x 18,00 m  x (6,00 / 6,15 m)

Armament:
      4 - 13,78" / 350 mm 35,0 cal guns - 992,08lbs / 450,00kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 37,48lbs / 17,00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 35,0 cal guns - 15,43lbs / 7,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4.392 lbs / 1.992 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 280 mm   191,93 ft / 58,50 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   103,31 ft / 31,49 m   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
   Upper:   7,87" / 200 mm   191,93 ft / 58,50 m   7,22 ft / 2,20 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,07" / 78 mm
   Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11,02" / 280 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5.042 ihp / 3.761 Kw = 15,00 kts
   Range 2.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 441 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   376 - 490

Cost:
   £0,707 million / $2,828 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 862 tons, 12,6%
      - Guns: 862 tons, 12,6%
   Armour: 2.787 tons, 40,6%
      - Belts: 1.354 tons, 19,7%
      - Armament: 611 tons, 8,9%
      - Armour Deck: 728 tons, 10,6%
      - Conning Towers: 95 tons, 1,4%
   Machinery: 788 tons, 11,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.873 tons, 27,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 545 tons, 7,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0,1%
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6.952 lbs / 3.153 Kg = 5,3 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 13,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,700 / 0,702
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m,  9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      10,50 ft / 3,20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69,7%
   Waterplane Area: 13.977 Square feet or 1.298 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 592 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 2,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

10t short range wireless radio

For now its a concept study - what do you think about it?

[Tanthalas]

that i'm not a huge fan of this type of ship is rather well known, but atleast this one has decent recoil (but its a rather pore gun platform in comparison to many ships out there).

[KWorld]

As a ship for closing the Baltic against invaders, or for reinforcing coastal defences or providing heavy firepower for coastal support, I think it's a solid enough ship.  In the more open North Sea, where you might have to operate at higher speeds for longer (and perhaps hold back the main fleet to this ship's speeds), I have pretty grave doubts.

[Jefgte]

I don't understand why you use 350mm guns  on a coastal BB & 240-280 on your squadron BBs

IMO, Monitor is not a good tactical choice
Build first or second class BBs is better.
---
You need BBs with 12" guns to have
12" & 11" for first class BBs
240mm for second class BBs.
...all 18kts

Jef

[Nobody]

that i'm not a huge fan of this type of ship is rather well known, but atleast this one has decent recoil (but its a rather pore gun platform in comparison to many ships out there).

It's obviously way too small to be a decent ship, but what exactly makes you say it's a "poor gun platform"? The SpringSharp values aren't exactly bad, except for the recoil maybe. In fact they are in the middle between the "just acceptable" and the "quite good" values. Of course that's because they are so slow, but for a monitor they are quite fast - I think.

As a ship for closing the Baltic against invaders, or for reinforcing coastal defences or providing heavy firepower for coastal support, I think it's a solid enough ship.  In the more open North Sea, where you might have to operate at higher speeds for longer (and perhaps hold back the main fleet to this ship's speeds), I have pretty grave doubts.

Exactly my thoughts. Their freeboard is hardly higher than the average wave height in the north sea - not a good combination. But they could go into river mouths and other low draft areas were my battleships and cruisers cannot operate.

Jef, it's a study. It also is a continuation of my existing line of ships, which are heavily influenced by what was build in reality.

[Jefgte]

Jef, it's a study. It also is a continuation of my existing line of ships, which are heavily influenced by what was build in reality.

OK, I start with the same existing concepts about French Navy. But now, thats my ships with French styl.

IMO, Germany need serious 13 000t BB now.

Jef

[Nobody]

Considering our escalating Battleships, what do you guys think about this:
L6 experiment, German experimental Ship of the Line laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   19.419 t light; 20.419 t standard; 22.457 t normal; 24.087 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (554,65 ft / 551,18 ft) x 82,02 ft x (31,50 / 33,30 ft)
   (169,06 m / 168,00 m) x 25,00 m  x (9,60 / 10,15 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 8,27" / 210 mm 45,0 cal guns - 238,10lbs / 108,00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      28 - 5,91" / 150 mm 40,0 cal guns - 88,18lbs / 40,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     28 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      28 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 35,27lbs / 16,00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 0,93lbs / 0,42kg shells, 1.500 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 8.796 lbs / 3.990 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   223,10 ft / 68,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Upper:   7,87" / 200 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,2" / 360 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   11,8" / 300 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      9,84" / 250 mm
   3rd:   6,69" / 170 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2,36" / 60 mm
   Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 14,96" / 380 mm, Aft 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24.176 ihp / 18.035 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.668 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   916 - 1.192

Cost:
   £1,934 million / $7,738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.029 tons, 9,0%
      - Guns: 2.029 tons, 9,0%
   Armour: 7.802 tons, 34,7%
      - Belts: 3.632 tons, 16,2%
      - Armament: 2.403 tons, 10,7%
      - Armour Deck: 1.308 tons, 5,8%
      - Conning Towers: 459 tons, 2,0%
   Machinery: 3.777 tons, 16,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.445 tons, 24,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.038 tons, 13,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 365 tons, 1,6%
      - Hull below water: 35 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.272 lbs / 10.103 Kg = 33,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 4,8 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 15,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,552 / 0,560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  19,69 ft / 6,00 m,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:      14,96 ft / 4,56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,9%
   Waterplane Area: 31.610 Square feet or 2.937 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 705 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,39
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

t misc
50 t 2 wireless radios

On second thought, the combination of AQY and heavy turreted intermediate guns was illegal, wasn't it?

[KWorld]

<nod>  Yep, it's illegal.  Otherwise, I might have built a AXY design with stacked 10" over 12" turrets.  :)